1 0 Tag Archives: vindication
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A peek at some more patch 4.0.6 changes

I briefly went over the 4.0.6 changes in a post last week, though I may have been a bit… sidetracked… by the announcement that Rebuke was going baseline. There were some goodies in there I ignored, and in addition, a lot more changes have been announced since by various blues. Here’s a summary:

  • The dwarven racial trait Stoneform now reduces all damage taken by 10%, rather than increasing armor by 10%. It also increases the dwarf’s size when used.

A pretty powerful buff that surely has a fair share of Alliance paladins considering a race change. You can’t beat a free half-Divine Protection.

  • Forbearance
    • The duration has been lowered to 1 minute, down from 2.
    • Lay on Hands now causes Forbearance on the target. It used to only cause it when cast on the paladin. This was an old design from when Divine Protection caused Forbearance and the paladin didn’t want to prevent a tank from using their defensive cooldown.
    • Lay on Hands cannot be a critical effect and will not be affected by most abilities which modify healing (such as Beacon of Light).
    • Since only Divine Shield, Lay on Hands and Hand of Protection cause Forbearance, the tooltips have been adjusted to better explain the mechanic.

The only really pertinent portion of this for us is the reduction of Forbearance to a minute duration. Not too shabby! Forbearance has been pretty much neutered this expansion, so this change isn’t as momentous as it might have been a year ago.

  • Seal of Truth: All single target attacks (including Judgement, Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism, and Templar’s Verdict) can now trigger this seal.

A nice threat boost. This’ll add a bonus 9% weapon damage to two more of our attacks (in addition to melee swings and Crusader Strike already doing this). Might make Seals of the Pure more attractive, but I’m not sure by how much.

  • Vindication no longer allows Hammer of Justice to interrupt stun-immune targets. With Rebuke baseline, this functionality is no longer necessary.

This was expected, so it’s not that big of a deal. I’m still interested in whether Avenger’s Shield interrupt component will similarly survive the patch. Having a ranged interrupt is handy for some fights, but realistically, with it tied to a main rotational ability there are going to be some fights where you’ll find yourself holding on using AS to prevent an accidental interrupt. (I’m primarily thinking of Maloriak and the Release Aberrations cast, but there are other examples.)

  • A socket has been added to all crafted epic armor pieces that did not already have one.

This is a pretty nice change, and it makes sense to boot. The crafted tank pieces are currently subpar compared to other pieces of the same item level. Hell, both are generally inferior to pieces from heroics. With this change in mind I’ll be picking up the crafted belt pronto and stowing it away.

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January 13, 2011
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Build 12942 roundup

A few changes to our spec in the latest build. Nothing particularly worth writing home about.


The Glyph of Seal of Truth survives for now, which is pretty exciting in face of recent threats it has received.

Nonetheless, the only actual glyph change I could see was a new Glyph of the Ascetic Crusader that reduces mana cost of Crusader Strike by 30%. Yawn.


Vindication now has a new effect, making Hand of Justice able to interrupt spells if a mob is not stunnable. If you’re scratching your head, that’s because Blizzard quietly removed that capability from HoJ a few builds ago. I guess it’s good we can now interrupt again, albeit poorly. Rebuke would be nicer. But that goes without saying.

Eternal Glory was nerfed again as well to 15%/30%. I keep eyeing this talent, thinking it might be useful in a spec combined with Guarded by the Light. But that feeling diminishes every new build.

I guess we can feel lucky they didn’t put this effect on a talent we’d normally avoid.

T11 Bonuses

The bonuses for the eventual first Cataclysm raid tier sets have been datamined. For Prot Paladins, they are:

2pc — Increases damage done by Crusader Strike by 10%.

4pc — Increases duration of Guardian of Ancient Kings by 50%.

The 2pc bonus is ok. Not amazing, just ok. The 4pc bonus is interesting. We’d have an 18 second 60% damage reduction cooldown with this bonus. That’s a bit long, but I’m not going to complain I suppose.

Milquetoast changes, all in all.

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September 10, 2010
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Please make this change!

As far as rotations go, something I mentioned in the live forums is we are trying letting Shield of the Righteous (or whatever we decide to call it) consume Holy Power for more damage *and* refresh Holy Shield. So you would need to get Holy Shield up, but then you could just use your shield hits instead. If you were ever in a position where you couldn’t hit the boss, you could always fall back on just casting Holy Shield itself. We’ll see how that feels.

That would be an amazing change, it would make Holy Power less of a limitation and more of a bonus, remove the maintenance-y feel of Holy Shield, and bring back our old friend ShoR all at the same time. I sincerely hope they make this change and are happy with it.

Bonus: a hint of something else they really should do.

We’d like to give Prot paladins (Ret too) passive spell hit somewhere.

That’d be pretty necessary if our attack power reduction debuff (Holy Wrath+Vindication) is on the spell hit table.

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Holy Wrath is a Holy Thunderclap

Sorry for the stubby post, but another pertinent GC quote from the bowels of the official tanking forums. Don’t say I never did anything nice for you guys after wading through much of that garbage and fit-mongering to find the gold.

When asked if Holy Wrath–now able to hit all enemy types–would apply Vindication, making it a Paladin version of a Warrior’s Thunderclap, Ghostcrawler replied:

This is, in fact, exactly what we did.

Likewise, the same person brought up that Thunderclap was upped in duration to 30 seconds and that Vindication might get the same treatment. Ghostcrawler confirmed this with a simple:


This doesn’t change that Vindication has a sub-100% uptime. I wonder if that’s on the block for being changed as well.

Overall though, it’s instances like these (or the stam modifier disparity being resolved) that keep me from overreacting to any negative beta news that arises. Now, let’s see if they resolve another obvious issue (Rebuke).

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July 23, 2010
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Better Late Than Never Friday, 11/6

I sat down today and told myself–told myself–I was going to write the next “chapter” in my 4 Characteristics of a Great Tank series, and then I got sidetracked and completely forgot. Mea culpa, friends.

In lieu of a wall of text, enjoy this short and sweet filler feature. Bonus: there’s about 20 Vindication questions in here. (Which I hope doesn’t reflect a disconnect in the tankadin community between folks that know it’s an amazing talent and folks who still think it’s for Ret. Short answer: Vindication = amazing!)

seal of righteousness or vengeance for tanking

Vengeance by leaps and bounds. You get so much more threat from the dot and stacking proc than you would from Seal of Righteousness.

how much does stamina increase pally spellpower

0 per point. Our spellpower comes form Strength now thanks to the change in 3.2.

3.2 vindication for protection paladins

I was curious to see what happened if I googled this specific phrase, and I’m happy to see this page with RD as the second link:


Couldn’t have said it better myself!

does vindication stack with other pallys?

No, and it doesn’t stack with Demo Shout/Roar either.

how does vindication work

Vindication can proc from all our direct attacks (melee, Avenger’s Shield, Shield of the Righteous, etc.) and from Seal of Vengeance damage. The effect lasts for 10 seconds, and generally it can be assume that as long as you’re continuously attacking during that 10 second period, Vindication will be up.

While it’s awesome that Vindication is passive, the only downside is it’s single target. HotR and AS can feasibly spread it around, but to keep it up 100% you’re going to have to devote your attacks to one target. There’s the rub between this talent and the warrior/druid shout.

judgments of just vindication stack?

Yes. Please have both in your spec!

best tank leg enchants 3.2.2

There’s only one choice, Frosthide Leg Armor. Find a friendly LWer to do that for you.

can anub’arak be beat with one off tank?

Normal-10? Yes. Heroic-10? Yes. Normal-25? Yes. Heroic-25? Excepting some super geared, passively unhittable, ubermensch tank, no.

how to get away from icehowl charge

As soon as you hit the wall, hold down your right mouse button and strafe left/right key. Pick whichever will get you away from him faster (ie, if he’s to your right, pick the left, and v/v). As soon as you unstun you’ll run off in the proper direction, to safety, with plenty of time to spare.

how to use different voice vent

I can only imagine the intent behind this question.

is it worth it for tankadins to be jewelcrafters wow

Yes. Yes. A thousand times, yes.

quel vs ardent guard

Ardent Guard (Heroic) > Blood and Glory > Quel’Serrar 25 > Ardent Guard > Quel’Serrar 10

titanium plating any good for tankadins?

Only for a shield specifically devoted to a threat/dps set. 81 block value is nice, but you’ll get more (EH) mileage out of the BC-era 18 stamina enchant.

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Better Late Than Never Friday, 10/16

Wow, I haven’t done one of these in a long, long time. To be honest, this is just filler to cap off the week. On Monday I’ll have what I hope will be a very informative post on tanking strategies for heroic ToC 10, so that will be something of substance to look forward to. As always, I’d appreciate any additions or corrections to any answers I give in the comments!

breastplate of the white knight gems

Let me list them in order: Solid Majestic Zircon, Solid Majestic Zircon, and Solid Majestic Zircon. Ignore the bonus, you’ll lose too much stamina trying to get it.

vindication, paladin, worth it?

Absolutely! Vindication is hands-down a mitigation talent and a must-have for any serious paladin tank. I’m a big fan of self-reliance, and I don’t trust any raider to keep up a debuff I can do myself.

does vindication work on raid bosses post 3.2.2


mark of the relentless or the leviathan’s coil

I would choose the Coil for when you’re dealing with more physical damage (the armor) and the Mark when dealing with more magic heavy fights (more stamina).

shadow strike timer burrower

Every 30 seconds the adds will both pick the farthest player from them and target them for a shadow strike. Interrupt all the burrowers to prevent a one-shot of the target.

0/58/18 paladin spec

When I first saw this query my thought was, “how the hell did this person add up 76 talent points?” Then I realized that they were talking about Cataclysm when we’ll all be level 85. If I had those five extra points now, I would probably put them in Seals of the Pure for a nice threat boost. I think that’d work out to more tps than 3/3 Sanctity of Battle and another 2 points in Conviction. I can’t see anything mitigation-wise that would be a better fit for them.

2% magic reduction meta

Very, very situational. I can count on one hand how many fights that might help in, if at all. Not worth it except as a very narrow gimmick.

245 tank libram of valiance up time

According to the log I did the other day to test Quel’Serrar, 98.3%.

3.2.2 pally tanking with spell power weapon

No, no, a thousand times no. You’d get more threat out of a dps one-hander with a high dps number than a spellpower weapon. Spellpower is dead, get with the times.

anub’arak solo tank adds interrupts

I do this for 10-H and 25-N. It’s totally doable. Having a lot of block value helps significantly.

best prot pally weapon enchant 3.2.2

I’m partial to Blood Draining for the survivability aspect. If you’re hurting for threat, I would recommend Accuracy.

can a paladin interrupt hammer of justice coliseum twin

Yes, assuming the shield is down. Holy Wrath is a better choice for this, though. (Damage and interrupt in one!)

do prot paladins need alot of hit rating 3.2

I am a vocal proponent of hit rating. I strive to always run as melee hit capped (though I don’t gem or enchant for it). There is nothing better than hit to ensure a steady, consistent stream of amazing tps.

fresh 80 tankadin what libram should i get?

Libram of the Sacred Shield! You can easily nab it after 4-5 heroics.

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October 16, 2009
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Better Late Than Never Friday, 8/28

I originally intended to do the next part in my “Characteristics of a great tank” saga, but then last night I forgot to run over to Elwynn to take some screenshots, and dammit that article is crap without accompanying pictures. So no part two this week, unfortunately.

For newcomers to this blog, BLTNF is when I pull search terms that brought people here from my Google Analytics and answer what they were originally looking for.

vindication 3.2 work on raid bosses now?

Yes, and it’s glorious. While warriors and other classes need to expend a global cooldown to apply their attack power debuff, ours happens automatically. Vindication is a serious mitigation talent and any tank worth their salt should take it.

how to get the new paladin mount in 3.2

Buy it from the Crusader’s Quartermaster in the Crusader tent at the tourney. It costs 100 Champion’s Seals.

shard of the crystal forest good for tankadin?

It’s not terrible, but the neck off of Kologarn-10 or the Malygos-25 neck quest are both better. Especially the latter with a Solid Majestic Zircon socketed.

what do protection paladins gem

I need to update my classic flowchart, but you can basically follow this: Use Endurings until crit capped, then gem Solids. The only time you are not gemming a Solid Majestic Zircon is if you want the socket bonus, which you should only go for if the bonus is +9 or +12 stamina. Ignore all other bonuses. Also, you’ll need one red gem for your meta (assuming you’re using Austere) which you can get from socketing a Shifting Dreadstone.

“greater inscription of the gladiator” defense cap

The Glad inscription gives you .18% crit reduction, so you need 5.42% from defense. I just wrote a lot of fractions in front of me to figure out how much defense skill that is, but I ran out of stickies and have no answers to show for it. I think it’s somewhere around 538 or so. Just refer to your character sheet to make sure your crit reductions add up to 5.6% or more.

Also (sorry, as a tank on the intertubes I am legally obligated to say this) there’s no such thing as a “defense cap”. Defense minimum!

how much defense = dodge

41 defense is 1% avoidance, or .33% dodge, parry, and miss. 123 defense rating is 1% dodge, parry, and miss (so, 3% avoidance).

2 bindings of the windseeker one clear

If this is true, I hate you. With all this Door Boss nonsense I’ve severely fallen behind in my Bindings farming. It’s kind of stressful thinking it’s going to be impossible to get Thunderfury once Cataclysm hits, so I have a very limited window (less than a year possibly) to farm these pieces. With a theoretical 52 tries remaining, each week lost to Door Boss’s cold, icy reticence is one week too far.

3.2 is hit rating important for protection paladin

Not so important you should gem or enchants for it, but it is definitely nice to have. Hit means more (consistent) threat and more successful taunts.

3.2 seal of righteousness tanking seal?

No. Maybe for quick-dying trash, but if you have enough time to apply a 5-stack of SoV, you should be using it.

are socket bonuses that good?

Depends on the socket bonus. +block rating, +hit, +expertise, +dodge, etc., are all bust. Only +9 or +12 stamina are worth going for, because if you’re gemming an Enduring or Shifting, you’re invariably losing 15 stamina. However, if the bonus reduces that then 3 or 6 stamina is a good trade for 10 agility or 10 defense rating.

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Speccing next patch just got murky

Oh, things used to be so simple. 53/18 was our max threat spec and you could get every utility talent you wanted along the way. Now, how complicated it all seems.

Blizz changed Seals of the Pure so that 15% damage modifier also applies to the 33% weapon damage bonus you get with a five stack up. This change means (as calculated by the amazing Theck) that 5/5 SotP is worth as much threat as the 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (major caveat on this below) pairing that most of us are running around with today.

To summarize Theck’s findings, this brave new world of threat looks like this against non-Undead/Humanoid/Demon/Elemental mobs:

  • 5/5 SotP == 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade
  • 4/5 SotP is ~70 less TPS than the 3/5 + 3/3 pairing above
  • 5/5 SotP + 3/5 Reckoning > 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (by ~80 tps)
  • 5/5 SotP + 3/5 Reckoning > 5/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (by ~10 tps)

Ultimately, there are several specs that cascade from this change:

4/53/15 – This spec takes most of the mitigation utility talents plus the delightfulness of PoJ. It’s less threat than the standard 3.1 spec, but not by much.

5/54/12 — This trades PoJ and DG for the final point in SotP and 3/5 Reckoning. This spec is worth ~170 more tps, but you’re trading off 15% run speed and a buffed Sacred Shield for that extra oomph.

0/53/18 — I know everything written thus far implies you can ignore Crusade, but the problem with that is this: if you’re fighting any of the mob types that Crusade does 6% damage to, then this spec is worth about ~140 more tps than 5/5 SotP, but when you’re not getting 6%, this spec is ~100 tps less than 5/5 SotP.

Considering you’re going to encounter more humanoids/undead in 5mans and outside of instances (along with most of the encounters in the Coliseum falling into the 6% category), overall you’ll probably get more threat with the third spec.

If in Ulduar you’re threat goes down a little (and for sure, in the great scheme of things, if you’re doing 8000 tps, 100 tps isn’t that big of a loss) it probably won’t be the worst thing in the world, because you’ll end up with more threat in the Coliseum with Crusade than otherwise.

For anyone who follows my Twitter, you’d have seen this morning that I pronounced Crusade was dead. As I’m sure you all know by now, I tend to stack haste rating IRL, and that was probably a case of me greatly exaggerating Crusade’s demise.

Ultimately though the one absolute you can walk away with from this post from is this: you want Divine Guardian and you want Vindication. Survivability is always a higher priority than 100-200 additional tps.

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July 24, 2009
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3.2 scattershot thoughts

Divine Guardian as a talent is kind of crap now with the nerf to Sacred Shield (only one per target). May be useful if no Holy Pallies are in the raid, but we always have at least one. Because it won’t do much for me for mitigation anymore, I think those two points are going to go somewhere else.

But where? Well, I need to bridge down to the sixth level talents with those two points, so they have to go somewhere in that first half of the tree. Call me crazy, but I might put them in Reckoning.

According to Jasari over at Maintankadin, Reckoning has received a 47% buff of tps per point thanks to the SoV change (assuming a four stack is up). While the tps per point gain isn’t exactly consistent, 2 points in there will net me an additional 66 tps.

Why not Improved Hammer of Justice? I’d rather take a threat increase (no matter how minor) over 20 seconds off an interrupt that is bound to the GCD.

I’m very disappointed about BV threat cap. Gone are the days of my 10-11k ShoR crits, at least for now.

The change to Judgements of Just (can’t be overwritten by a non-JoJ judgement) is pretty awesome however.

Vindication is pretty awesome, and a mitigation talent at that, so it’ll be must have. The points for it though will most likely be leeched over from Conviction (which has a lower tps per point value than Crusade).

Feasible spec come 3.2 would be this, I suppose.

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July 17, 2009