I’m leveling my priest, Aneliese, with Antigen’s mage Mitogen. Aneliese has been disc since level 10. Yep, I’m leveling disc!
Since I’ve been leveling heals, you can imagine that I’ve run quite a few dungeons on my way from 1 to roughly 50. I do a lot of healing. I see a lot of tanks.
And, my pink comrades, I am ashamed of our class. I have judged the tanks presented to me, as a priest, and I find myself preferring warriors.
I know. It’s that bad.
Dear Low Level Pallies: Stop Sucking.
It is definitely possible to tank well as a Paladin at low levels. Roughly half the paladin tanks I’ve healed have been fantastic. They know the game; they use their Avenger’s Shield right; and they pull intelligently. Some of them even blow their Holy Power on Word of Glory.
Yet these good ones are a rare, rare breed.
Low level pallies. Let’s have a chat. Gather ’round and listen to Mommy Anafielle. I will smite you down if you keep screwing up and giving our very intelligent and very skillful a community a bad name.
Let’s talk about some basics….
DON’T queue as a tank without a Protection spec.
You might still be able to get away with tanking in ret at the low levels. Maybe. However, every excellent low level pally tank I’ve healed has been prot without exception. Either level as prot, or go get dual spec and keep some prot gear in your bags.
Dual spec is only 100 gold. Get it.
“I don’t have enough money.” Well, being a hybrid takes commitment, my friend. If you want to be a tank, you need a prot spec. If you can’t afford a prot spec, you can’t be a tank.
DON’T run around the room and gather everything up.
JUST DON’T DO THIS. EVER. RESIST THE URGE.
Don’t run around the goddamn room like an idiot. Because I am your healer. I will pre-bubble you, but that only goes so far. If you run around trailing a hundred mobs like the Jonas Brothers at a concert full of teenage girls, the moment I rebubble your half-dead ass, those teenage girls will realize that I am freakin’ Justin Bieber and TURN AROUND AMG THERE HE IS HOLY SHIT HERES A SHARPIE PLEASE SIGN MY TRAINING BRA TAKE A PICTURE AMGGGGGGGG BEST DAY OF MY LYFEEEEEEEEEEEE.
And then I’m dead.
Don’t make me Justin Bieber.
Really. Don’t do it.
I know that level 80 tanks can sometimes appear to pull very messily, especially when we outgear things.
You are not level 80. This is not the pre Marrogar trash in ICC. You are not a badass heroic geared raid tank with six personal healers, a low cooldown Consecrate, and the old school Seal of Cleave. This is Maraudon, post-4.0, and you are just some idiot who thinks that running close to mobs will stick them to you like glue.
There is absolutely no good reason to ever do this. It’s not like the mobs will die more effectively. Half the DPS don’t even have AE abilities yet. You are only making the whole dungeon slower! We’re all chasing after you, I’m burning through my mana pool healing everyone frantically, you aren’t holding threat on jack shit….. It’s just a mess, and a completely pointless one.
Stop being stupid.
DON’T confuse body pulling with actual threat.
Let’s talk about threat, and mobs. Mobs are fickle creatures.
They are pretty easy to snag. All you need to do is show your face, and they’ll chase you. Oh, they’ll chase you! It’s love at first sight – you’re at the top of their Omen – and everything is great. You are a hot little number, you sexy blood elf you, and they want a piece of that plate clad ass. You didn’t even have to get them flowers, and they are totally drooling all over you. It’s probably the hair.
But let me tell you a secret. It’s all a lie. They aren’t really all that attracted to you. Yours was just the first face they saw.
Once I start healing and other the other three people here start DPSing, they will drop you like you were nothing to them, nothing at all, and get way more interested in your more active friends. If you want to keep all those mobs, you actually have to hit them. Love is pain.
Actually, I’m a little bit concerned about where this analogy is going. Let’s drop it and move along.
My point is, you need to deal damage to mobs to keep them on you. A harsh but true fact. Welcome to the world of tanking.
Pro Tip: dropping a Consecrate on the ground and running through it doesn’t count.
It doesn’t do shit. It probably won’t tick on half of them. You need to sit them in a Consecrate and keep them there.
“Alright, ‘Anafielle’,” You might say, scornfully. “Quit telling me I’m a noob. Be useful. How the heck do I hold threat on a whole lot of mobs?”
There’s an easy answer.
Pull intelligently.
Fact of Life: The best way to hold threat on a lot of mobs is to pull them right in the first place.
I have no idea what spells you get now with 4.0, but it seems like you’ve got most of the really important ones. Here’s how I’d pull, if I was a young and pre-60 paladin tank.
Observe the area in front of you. Usually, you’ll target the mob you want the DPS to kill first. Run your ass in there. Now let’s all pause to mourn Prot’s present lack of Pursuit of Justice. I know. I miss it too. Alright, the moment of silence is over. Pull.
Hit your target with Avenger’s Shield, or Judgement and then Avenger’s Shield. The mobs run to you; you run to them; it’s like your meeting was meant to happen! When you stop, make sure they’re all in front of you. You’re not hitting jack shit with Hammer of the Righteous if your targets are not in front of you. You aren’t blocking if your targets aren’t in front of you. Backpedal accordingly.
Use Hammer of the Righteous. Use Avenger’s Shield. Sit your mobs in a Consecrate if it’s worth your mana to drop one. Switch targets if the DPS are being idiots and you want to make sure you’ve got threat on everything, but honestly, things in dungeons die in seconds. If you have pulled correctly, you will hold your mobs without too much trouble.
I’m not saying, don’t chain pull… I’m just saying, don’t pull like an idiot!
One group is OK. Two groups is OK. Pull a group and carefully taunt a pat over. That’s all fine.
Chain pulling is ok! The mobs are almost dead? No problem, I like a fast dungeon. While I feel like it’s good tank etiquette to remain in place until everything’s dead, I don’t really mind if you move away to pull the next group while the DPS finishes off the last mob.
They key is to control what you tank.
Good tanking is about control.
You want to pull as many mobs as you can control. If that’s just one group, that’s just one group. If that’s two or three, that’s two or three.
Pull what you can control, finish them off, and move along.
Don’t let anyone rush you, and don’t rush yourself.
So…. low level pallies… please stop being dumb!
Hearts, stars, and rainbows,
Anafielle
@Rhidach
Heart, stars, and rainbows?
@Anafielle
I’ve really never signed an email like that to you? I used to do it all the time as a joke. Back in school, I think I signed an email like that to a professor one time. (oops)
@Rhidach
Can’t say you ever have, haha.
… Clovers, and Blue Moons?
@hazmacewillraid
ROFL. I didn’t realize that’s what she was talking about…
Realization: Ana is a lepruchan. Spread the word.
@DPShaw3
I just started levelling a disc priest too, (mine is only in his twenties) so I feel your “bad tank” pain. I think part of the problem is the “bad dps” that too many new tanks are being exposed to. The rogues in full heirloom gear that, when you pull just those two or three you can safely handle, run around the room and pull everything else in sight back over to you. The hunters that… well really the hunters haven’t been so much of a problem since the patch. But you get where I’m going with this, right? Bad tanking is still bad tanking, but a lot of these new tanks have a heck of an up-hill battle to learn how to do things “right.”
@Anafielle
I absolutely agree 100%.
I had a whole section in this post on DPS who think they’re tanks, but I took it out to shorten this post (I have a tendency to write long ones… hehe.) Please rest assured I do not only blame the poor tanks. DPS are also at fault.
One of my biggest pet peeves as a tank used to be, DPS who felt the need to pull for me. It was always guaranteed to piss me off.
Back when I was a very scared, very underconfident tank, it really irked me, and make me feel insecure about my pulling. I always had a friend or two running dungeons with me when I was learning how to tank. I shudder to think what might have happened if those people hadn’t been around to teach me dungeon ettiquite and how to pull different groups, etc.
These new tanks just might not know – or they’re copying what they see level 80 tanks who outgear heroics doing – and DPS who pull for them definitely don’t help!
Maybe I should put that section back in my post…
I also think this is a symptom of re-rolls. Tanks who are used to pulling the entire instance @ level 80, and thinking it can apply all the way down. Sadly, in much of the content, it truly can be done….at least for a few more weeks.
I have vague hopes that low level content will be a bit more of a challenge come Dec 7th.
@DPShaw3
I don’t even know what to suggest to new tanks when everyone in the dungeon is doing 50dps… except for the uber geared rogue pumping out 150. I mean other than “if they pull it, they tank it,” and trying to convince your healer not to help them live through their impatience, what can you do? They overgear the low level dungeons so much that half the time even then they can live through it. Argh!
I agree with everything you’ve just said the problem Im having is that dps just wants to run, run and run some more. I’ve qued and entered instance only to have a fury warrior, charge in or boomkin wrath pull and it’s not that the stop because they don’t. They just run and then pass blame if they die because heaven forbid the healer might be out of man. The problem im seeing is dps is inpatient. I don’t claim to be the best tank in the world I’m still learning, so guess what you pull it you tank it.
@Anafielle
Yeah, see my comment above to Orvillius. I agree with you completely. DPS also make things VERY problematic for the new tank.
I really should put that section about DPS back into this post. You & Orvillius make good points.
/clap
Wonderful article. Sad that it needs to be said, though.
.-= Aeven’s last blog ..Tanks for the advice =-.
@thorianar
The Jonas Brothers/Justin Beiber.
@thorianar
Damn, deleted too much and now things make no sense.
I meant, the Jonas Brothers/Justin Bieber analogy made my day.
Ana great post. I am leveling a second prot pally because I love paladins and I am not of the right mind, but since 4.0 being a tankadin is cake…..when you know what you are doing :-). Again great post, maybe Rhidach can finally make you a regular poster and not just when he is on vacation.
@Rhidach
She is a regular poster! For some reason she refuses to post when I’m around, haha.
LOL. Well then she has no excuse. BTW this comment is to boost her comment numbers :-p
@Anafielle
He made me a regular poster a long time ago; I just have so much trouble thinking of it as “my blog too” when long ago a noobie little pally tank found rhidach’s blog :)
I will try to post more, thanks for the kind words!!
@HanaMoonfire
I have a low level healer alt and this is what annoys me the most. Some of the tanks also have no concept that not everyone is running around in heirloom gear and don’t wait for me to get mana back.
Jonas Bros and Justin Bieber analogy was great too. ;)
.-= Hana’s last blog ..Paladin Gut Feeling About Healing in a Post-40 World =-.
Know what I love? I set the tank as my focus when I enter the dungeon on my mage, so I can cast [@focustarget]. Sooooooo, Mr. New Tankadin, I couldn’t help noticing that you keep casting Exorcism in the middle of these pulls ….
@Anafielle
I will tell you what I told my new favorite warrior the other night, in raid. He whispered me, “I just started using a focustarget macro, and it’s awesome! My DPS is higher than the other warriors now and I haven’t pulled anything all night long!”
You use a focus target macro…
I LOVE YOU.
I LOVE YOU.
FAVORITE DPS EVER.
Oh wait, I’m coming at this from the perspective of a healer, not the tank!
Damnit…. damn split personality disorder!
Also: ROFL at exorcism.
Well, my main is a Tankadin. I’m not Theck, but I *do* know that casting whilst tanking is a *bad* thing, and healers hate when a tank’s avoidance suddenly drops to zero ;). Add to the fact that I’m engaged to my main healer (disc priest) and best friends with the other (resto drood) …. I’d never hear the end of it >.<.
I see the exorcism hardcast while 4-5 mobs beat on a tank a lot. I try to explain why it’s bad every time. Unfortunately, about 50% of the time I’m rewarded for it with a stream of verbal abuse and “STFU”s….
I’d say “bad tank is bad”, but this is more an example of “stupid is as stupid does” when valid, friendly advise is ignored/snubbed.
Hardcasting anything while tanking has adverse consequences, yes. Hardcasting exorcism while tanking is generally a threat loss, also yes.
There are circumstances in which I’ve hardcast exorcism while tanking in WotLK, because the consequence of not doing so was wiping. Postulate: Of your 18 DPS, one of them is playing half-asleep and does something dumb, like unleashing a mega-cleave on the freshly spawned Shambling Horror. You’ve already unleashed AS and Judge on it before it got ripped, so you need something to land after your taunt, or it eats DPS and you wipe. Your other horror is basically immobile, because it hasn’t shockwaved in a while. One non-frenzied horror won’t kill you – hardcast exorcism and get your mob.
I haven’t tanked at low level in 3 years or more, I certainly don’t know what tools paladins have at what levels, but hardcasting exorcism is not ALWAYS strictly wrong.
Is it ALWAYS the wrong thing to do? No. Nothing is ALWAYS wrong. Usually when I see this going on with new tankadins, tho … they already have 5 mobs beating on them like bongos. Aaaaaaand … you may be slightly too masochistic, Meloree ;)
@Anafielle
Maybe I’m just judgmental. If I saw Rhidach casting Exorcism, I’d probably be like “Oh, there must be a really good reason for that.” I also, on occasion, used to see people cast Exorcism to pull (sometimes pre 4.0 when AS was on the longer cooldown.) It’s not always wrong, I’m sure.
But when I’m in these level 40 dungeons, these tanks are doing so much rofl stuff that Exorcism is just the icing on the cake :)
Oh, I’ve certainly used it to do the same Meloree. I’ve also squeezed it between boss swings to pick up new adds, all that fancy stuff. The difference is I–and you, to a much larger degree–have been doing this for a while and understand the risk we’re taking by doing it and how we might counteract it. I’m talking about tanks who pull an entire room in BRD, are getting absolutely pounded as-is, and then hardcast it.
@Ohai, you’re going to want to NOT get in that habit. You’re going to want to save your focustarget for your Polymorph macro once Cata hits..
Just saying :)
Good point, Jason. I’m just trying to be the good dps’r that I like to tank for ;) …. currently, I’m using a mouseover macro for my poly. Am I doin it wrong? Good advice always welcome :)
It’s not just the DPS who are impatient twatwaffles in dungeons and pull for the tank or pull more for the tank if they don’t think he has enough.
It’s some of the healers. Both when I was leveling through the Dungeon Finder and gearing my relatively newer tanks in heroics, DPS were bad enough, but it was the healers who were under the impression that the only limit on my ability to handle a pack was their OP heals that caused the most wipes.
PULL MORE I’M BORED
Biggest lesson I learned was “the healer’s judgment about what I can tank is not better than mine, ever”.
.-= LabRat’s last blog ..Things That Are Better Unexplained =-.
@Anafielle
Basically, no one’s judgement is better than yours about how fast to go.
Luckily, the dungeon queue (at least in my BG) is entirely dependent on you, the tank. Even we low level healers are a lot more numerous. Nothing wrong with leaving and waiting on a more polite group.
While the rest of your article is both amusing and accurate (also leveling a disc priest at the moment, feeling your pain), I think one part in particular needs to be reiterated again, and again, and again until people are so sick of hearing it that their ears bleed in rebellion:
“Good tanking is about control.”
Yes, yes, a hundred times yes. This right here is why tanks get mad at DPS who pull for them, attack the wrong target, face-aggro the entire room, whatever stupid thing they’ve decided to do these days. As a tank, my job is to control the run, control the mobs, and control my damage intake. If DPS are doing things that take that control away from me, I can’t do my job and I get cranky.
I honestly feel like every DPS needs to play a tank at a high level at least once, just to see how bloody frustrating it can be, then maybe they’ll lay off the “gogogololpulling4u” BS that’s become so prevalent. There’s so many complaints about DPS queues being so long, but I think it’s DPS attitudes causing that–I know based on my last week of running heroics again for a change, I will not be doing any LFG randoms in Cataclysm for at least the first few months. And it’s honestly kind of a shame.
I kind of enjoy it when DPS pulls extra packs for me in heroics. Good tanking is about control, as stated, but it’s also about regaining control from chaos, so I look at it as an opportunity to practice for those times when things go horribly wrong in raids.
I may be slightly too masochistic.
@Rhidach
Definitely masochistic.
I’m a tank and a raid leader. I think a certain healthy dose of masochism is a requirement for the job.
@Rhidach
I think I have this statement crocheted and framed somewhere in my living room.
@Anafielle
I see your point, for sure.
But my opinion when I’m the tank (and it’s a challenge for me) and when I’m the healer (and I have NO CONTROL OVER ANYTHING OH GOD) tend to be different….
I am definitely a masochist too, but more than that, I’m a huge control freak!
I do find I enjoy it occasionally, yes. It’s like a test of my skills; how quickly can I pick up 3 mobs going different ways while three different DPS hit them? But I’ve found that I enjoy it when I’m running with guild groups or friends who I know are competent and can handle themselves or will help me out if I’m struggling (which thankfully hasn’t happened in a while, fingers crossed). On the other hand, the exact same scenario can happen with 4 PUG’d players and I start wanting to rip my hair out. Even if they’re equally skilled and handle things just as well. Maybe it goes back to the control-freakness of tanking–I KNOW how my friends/guildies are going to react to a situation and can adjust for that reaction.
Plus my last guild did this to me all the time in raids, while my off tank was a newbie who was still struggling with basics like using nameplates. I believe my blood pressure may have skyrocketed during those months.
As someone who has leveled a couple healers, as well as a tank I agree 100%.
My first character and main is a warlock and I’ve never understood wanting to pull for the tank either. Maybe I’m just weird like that.
@gotowell
Love the Justin Bieber thing. EFFING AMAZING.
Also, yes, DPS are more detrimental at low level than tanks themselves, imo. I started leveling another pally tank recently and noted that, at level 24, it’s pointless to even try.
.-= Tomaj’s last blog ..In Defense of Chakra =-.
That was simply glorious!
Well written and damn funny! I hope some beginner-tanks read it and see the wisdom in those lines. I’m tired of saving the healers ass with my fel-guard on my warlock-twink because the tank keeps screwing up -.-
Fade works. My level 30 disc priest is stuck in SM graveyard. Many groups end up pulling multiple groups in the torture room. I’ve saved myself several times with fade. Shield yourself, run to the tank, pop fade.
.-= big heals’s last blog ..Healing the Elemental Invasion Bosses =-.
@Anafielle
Aha, Fade! Now maybe that is a button that should be on my bars… HMMMM.
Some priest I am!
My main is a priest, and I love my Fade-Button.
It’s also a very good tool to get dps killed instead of yourself if you ever happen to pull. (Example: Utgarde Keep, Moon Festival week, I was on my way to the Elder there, a pat passes by, I pull. A good trained rogue-friend of mine tries to save me, I press Fade, she gets killed, tank picks the mobs up.
Win-Win Situation!)
@Vosskah
Ana, just face it, warriors are better. :-)
All poking aside, I think the problem that a lot of baby pallies have is they rolled the class after seeing what high level pallies were doing in Heroics in Wrath. Fact is, your class was OP when it came to AoE aggro and resilience. I’ve seen pallies turn on their rocket boots and pull a whole corridor at the beginning of UP, healing themselves while the rest of the group tried to catch up. The people that read Righteous Defense will most likely not be the bad pallies you’re seeing out there, but all of you guys are their mentor. Your actions as a tank at 80 is teaching them how a tank acts. And they’re copying you, not knowing all of the work and practice you guys put in getting such control over the groups.
Warriors were never thought to be AoE beasts so most of us tank very fast, charging from group to group but we most often keep our groups down to about 6 mobs top. The baby warriors are trying to do the same.
@Rhidach
That’s actually a great point Voss. I’m sure a lot of the low level pally tanks are rerolls looking for some sweet, sweet FOTM lovin’. I never thought of it like that.
@hazmacewillraid
Once Ana and I get to Outlands (you know, in 10 years time, at the pace we’re going), I’m sure she’ll be saying the same things about DKs.
It’s not just pally tanks, though their pulling habits are indeed probably inspired by level 80 pally tanks. It’s the rogues pulling aggro, the DPS starting AoE (what little AoEs they have) before the tank has sufficient aggro; the general lack of dungeon etiquette that Wrath heroics have bred.
I’m willing to bet that once Cata is in full swing and people become accustomed to the difficulty of Cata heroics, low levels alts will be a little more careful in dungeons.
Oh Anitgen, you reminded me of the DKs. You think things are bad right now? Wait till you see the DKs, it’s atrocious! I pretty much left any group with a DK tank on my priest.
@Anafielle
Your comment is 100% accurate. You are so right.
We 80 tanks have really terrible habits that might work at 80, with a patient and extremely overgeared gorup, but those same habits are absolutely deadly at low levels. I am guilty of chain pulling entire wings in heroics- because I CAN, or because I could. The other people in my heroic, they roll a low level tank, and they think, “Well, that’s how confident tanks pull mobs. I’m going to be confident.” But it doesn’t work like that!
Anyways – GREAT point.
@_vidyala
As my pally leveling days are over, it’s now lowbie warrior tanking I’m doing. I haven’t had any trouble with healers. The biggest pain in the ass I’ve had so far has BEEN paladins AND warriors. My “healing paladin” with his two-hander, charging sprinting around to pull every mob before I could even reach it…and DPS warriors with their ridiculous charge (WTB Warbringer). I hope the tanks improve as you guys level up! Also, Antigen leveling a mage must mean all is right with the world!
.-= Vidyala’s last blog ..Tuesday Art Day- Talwen =-.
@hazmacewillraid
Leveling a mage (at least as frost) is all about control… and power…
And portals and brownies.
@Rhidach
I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING!!
OH GOD I’M DOING IT TOO
Outstanding post, and if you change the mechanics around, all of it applies to ANY tank regardless of class. Tanking IS about control, and control starts at the pull. If the pull goes pear-shaped, it’s really hard to get that control back, especially if the DPS (as they tend to do in heroics these days) is going all LOLOLOLOLNUKEWOOOOMETERS. I’m as guilty of it as anybody when I DPS.
And, I must say, I’m happy to see you admitting the inherent superiority of warriors. :)
.-= Linedan’s last blog ..Random Acts of Friday II =-.
@Anafielle
I can’t help it! Somehow they always seem to know how to pull – they can chain pull very effectively, but they usually stick to a reasonable number of mobs – and they have whatever that nice snap threat move is that sticks things to them.
I’ve had a few terribad warriors, but on the whole I smile when I pop a dungeon and see a warrior tank.
Maybe I need to level one!
WAIT! NO! STOP THAT THINKING, ANA!
My main is a warrior tank \cheesygrin but I always envied the AoE threat of a pally since my BC days. So now my baby pally is level 57 and about to step into Outlands. My biggest issues I’ve seen are the Boomy’s doing their knockback and Hurrican immediately, and mages/warlocks with their AoE going right off the bat.
I created a macro telling the DPS that I will only taunt off you twice and then you’re on your own if you continue to pull agro. Usually the healer will stop healing that person as well which makes an easier run once the bad DPS die and the rest of us can finish off the mobs.
Simple fact is that paladins are still seen as the AoE tank even if it is no longer true. Most of them don’t tab targets to make sure you are building even threat.
They drop Consecration, run through (which up until 4.0.1 was enough to hold threat) and Hammer everything. On top of that up until level 39 they only have Word of Glory to spend their holy power on. Since they think that they are helping out healing they pull even more under that justification.
I am leveling up a druid tank and we pretty much have 1 AoE move every 6 secs which forces us to tab target to make sure we will be able to hold threat. Warriors are in the same boat and that is why they seem so much more in control because you are forced to learn it early or you give up and switch your spec to DPS.
I am healing my way through the LFD too and I will still say for every bad tank I have had it still doesn’t come close to the terrible DPS I’ve been forced to heal. Focusing on the tanks target is so foreign it is ridiculous.
If Cataclysm changes to healers mana are as harsh as they are suppose to be, many a DPS are gonna be floor tanking come the next expansion.
@Anafielle
You’re right.
We USED to have a lot more tools in our toolbox than anyone else. The field is a ton more level these days – although we all have different tools. I would so much prefer to have Shockwave than Consecrate, which hits like a wet noodle, has a very long cooldown, and requires you to sit the mobs there to build threat.
Although we also have Hammar of the Righteous, and Holy Wrath, so on the other hand… I guess we’re still our regular ol’ overpowered selves :) And so there’s really no excuse for low level pallies to suck so badly!
Well Ana, maybe you should tell certain impatient hpallys *cough* to not pull if you think tanks should only pull as much as they can handle lol (and I’m not referencing Ana lol)
Oh, and it’s AoE :P
@Anafielle
AEGGGGGGS! I’m trying not to inflate my own comment count so as to keep from pissing off poor Rhidach, but hi!!!
Oh believe me, I have no problem with a certain “PB”‘s impatience, because I usually agree with her! I will pull too! You’ve never heard me innocently say, “Oh, did you say wait? Because what I heard was, ‘Pull more, Ana.’”
AND IT IS NOT AOE. IT IS AE. I have a blog post WRITTEN on this subject and I SHALL PREVAIL!!!
I think most of this applies to all tanks.
One of the worst things that I encounter in almost every single low level dungeon is that the tank runs off to pulls mobs before everyone has even zoned in.
.-= Jasyla’s last blog ..The new Cannot be Tamed =-.
I’m in the process of leveling my 4th healer (Holy Pally, though Disc Priest main here), and tanks who do this have been the bane of my existence. It’s like no one has heard of people having different latencies or *gasp* having to change specs and get mana before starting the dungeon.
Though, I’ll never forget the run where the pally tank kept overpulling and couldn’t hold threat on anything (and this was pre-4.0 so Pally AE threat was still pretty easy at lower levels) when I told the tank “If you can’t tank it, don’t pull it”. So how that concept never occured to the tank or one of the DPS and I got chewed on for it. I think that they need to add a new loading screen tooltip that says “Tanking is about control”
I think I love you.
Last week I saw a level 35 prot pally pull ALL of SM Armory in three pulls. I was the resto shaman running frantically behind trying to decide if someone would die if I spent a GCD on dropping totems, or if it was more likely that they’d die if I *didn’t* drop the totems. In the end, I dropped the totems and they didn’t die, but it took everything I had, and I raid with a resto shaman main, so I know a trick or two.
IMO, this is only going to get worse in Cataclysm unless the dungeons are retuned to match the level of gear available to 1) toons in heirlooms and 2) toons leveled exclusively through the dungeon finder. Those instances were intended for characters with Vanilla WoW abilities, dressed mostly in quest greens. Not for super powered Wrath babies in souped up heirlooms and full dungeon blues.
@Evlyxx
Love this article sounds like so many tanks I’ve healed at all levels even some at 80 play this way.
@Evlyxx
btw changed twitter name recently
.-= Evlyxx’s last blog ..The Backstory- After The Dragon =-.
I happen to have a Protadin in the fifties. The abilities all feel very different now; my first few dungeons were pretty hard (doesn’t help the mobs were all five levels above me), but it has seemed to work itself out.
I can confirm that those are all the major tools you get at that level, aside from Holy Wrath (available in your twenties). It eats your mana, but it’s a pretty good filler when you have a lot of mobs (particularly if they are stunnable). I’ve been using it all the time.
.-= Ecclesiastical Discipline’s last blog ..Contest! =-.
Glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks like this… The trick is to level with a friend who’s willing to tank and at least does a halfway decent job. I’m leveling a restro druid with a friend I brought in via “recruit-a-friend” (’cause I wanted that mount; lol), and thankfully, he’s a reasonably good prot warrior ^_^
This post makes me so happy; I thought it was just me. I swear, absolutely every low-level paladin tank that I’ve had since 4.0 just ran through the instance body-pulling things, only if I got lucky they’d also hit Avenger’s Shield on cooldown. They really do think that their mere looks are magic enough. Though I see a lot of warrior tanks doing the same really, only they also hit Thunderclap every time it’s off cooldown.
Half the DPS don’t even have AE abilities yet.
This line in particular can’t be emphasised enough. I had someone yell at my rogue in Uldaman to AoE after the tank was so “kind” to pull the whole room before Ironaya at once. I’m a rogue, I don’t get Fan of Knives until level eighty. You’re really not doing anyone any favours by pulling this much.
.-= Shintar’s last blog ..Now thats what I call an invasion! =-.
I enjoyed reading your post on tanking. I am a low level Prot Pally tank and I think a lot of valid points were raised.
I have only just started playing so everything is new to me. I have a good mate who is helping me along the way and would be stuck without him. I would like to make a few points of my own.
Firstly, I find it very frustrating when you enter a dungeon and you get some DPS go straight in and start pulling, especially pets. Sometimes I am doing a dungeon for the first time so I dont know the lay out, therefore I need to assess the situation before I can start pulling. Racing in and doing it for me does not help me learn.
Secondly it is always dificult to know how good the healer is. If I know the healer is competent then I can safely pull a much larger group than if they are not. I did the same dungeon twice last night and pulled en entire room in the first instance without healing myself and easily came out the other end. I do the same thing the second time heal myself and still wipe and then get abused for pulling too much. I even had to beg to get healed after being resurrected.
I havent watched any lv 80s tank so dont know what they are doing and hence have not got any of my knowledge from them. I am trying to learn from other players who are not tanks but seem to know everything about it. It is hard and I want to be better but to learn you have to stuff up from time to time. I like to think I am getting better but it is hard for many reasons.
I must go but my final comment would be…..I always welcome helpful advise but saying “TANK BETTER” after a wipe does not help me at all. Maybe try giving me some advise. Heaven forbid you could even wisper me after a dungeon has finished. I am doing my research, and hence looking on these forums etc but some real time advice would be great.
Sorry… but in addition it is also difficult when you go into a room to pull say 2 groups. You run past one to get attention and dont cast immediately but go get the other with a shield or similar . Then once both groups are at my feet, concecrate and hammer. But by the time this has happened DPS is already in and taken the agg from the 1st group. Sometimes it would be nice to have a few seconds to set up a good pull and get some agg before dps comes in to finish them off. I find once a few get away it is twice as hard to get them back and you do end up circling around to try and pick up the strays.
Yeah, I know I’m really late to the party but I just found this blog tonight & this article touched a special place with me.
The most annoying thing in the world is RFC with “macho” tanks. We have a rogue, a hunter, and a warrior DPS. Tank runs down to the bottom of that ramp at the beginning and pulls every trogg in that room.
Why?
Our entire group doesn’t even HAVE AoE. All you’re doing is wasting the healer’s mana & flexing your epeen. Gah, I hate that so much.
Thank you! This post can really be aimed at all lowbie tanks. For the past week I’ve not had one decent tank in my leveling dungeons. Ive been forced to dual spec my little pally ret/prot. So, lowbie tanks, please stop being dumb so I can go back to being a lazy dps.