Hey all, remember me? It’s Anafielle! I still have author privileges! Rhidach hasn’t taken them away since I got up on TV and claimed the blog was mine! He did threaten to gkick me, but luckily I have blackmail photos from Blizzcon. /cackle
Since Patch 4.0 killed my usual 10 man raid, I’ve been enjoying my free Sunday nights. I’ve been taking advantage of my spare time by … playing more wow. And so, on Halloween night, I found myself talked into coming along to a raid I had wanted to see for some time: Heroic Halion 10.
Ruby Sanctum
Our setup: dual pally tanks, three heals (including a priest spec’d into Body and Soul), and five high DPS. We stuck Antigen from Haz Mace Will Raid with fire side tanking in his offspec. Poor guy.
We almost wiped on a miniboss when all three healers went offline due to phone calls or Trick or Treaters ringing the door. Both tanks died, but our co-GM and resident pro hunter kited the miniboss from 11% to zero while those of us who were dead panicked and then started cheering on Mumble.
It just wouldn’t feel like a Ruby Sanctum raid without a trash wipe.
Heroic Halion: Notes on Phase 1
The fire side tank should pull the dragon from the left side of the room. We pull Halion about halfway off the center and keep him facing to the left. Each time the meteor falls, we don’t care where it lands- the entire raid runs through the dragon.
DBM gives raid warnings for Fiery Combustion / Soul Consumption targets, and several people would calmly call out the target, just to remind them. Our snare droppers got to the edges without issue. Speaking of which, our guild recently switched to Mumble, and it really shined on a fight like this. I used to hate Vent delays on critical call-outs. Mumble has no delay. It’s amazing. We’ll never go back.
I suck at Combustion / Consumption. I tunnel vision’d a few times, and jerked awake only when I heard a healer call my name. Thank god for Engineering. I smacked my Rocket Boots and got to the edge in time to drop a tiny circle like a pro. Psh. Me? Tunnel vision? Noooo. (I did this at least three times.)
Between Rocket Boots and Body and Soul, our snare droppers had no issues at all. Our ability to deal with this mechanic without screwing it up vastly simplified the fight.
Shadow Realm Tanking
I was the Shadow Side tank. No, I do not turn the dragon the whole time. I stare at orbs and only move for Cutters. I turn the dragon with pure strafing and a little bit of forward movement. Wrathy posted an excellent guide on dragon turning some time ago that’s worth a read.
Here is my own guide to cutter survival:
- Observe the two orbs across from you.
- Center yourself between them.
- Hit strafe as needed.
- Enjoy your continued survival.
You get a ton of warning when cutters pop- there’s a DBM timer, as well as a convenient emote built into the fight that gives you about 2 seconds more warning. When the cutters were a few seconds from activating, I’d made a judgement call about whether to sit in my “pie piece” or move to the next “pie piece,” whichever one took the least movement.
Positioning is scarier on heroic, because the stakes are higher, but here’s the secret: it’s easier. Two reference points is better than one.
Shadow Realm Survival
All we really had to do was keep everyone alive through cutters. This took about two hours.
It was my first time tanking Shadow Side on heroic – and I rarely ever tank Shadow side even on Normal 25 – so it took me more than a few tries to get a feel for when to move the dragon, how fast to turn him, and how to move him predictably.
Predictable movement is the key to tanking a fight over and over. No one wants a boss jerking around randomly. And Halion definitely jerked around a bit when I was first getting the hang of it. I would adjust him pretty quickly, and pretty “late”, right before cutters. My goal for phase 2 and 3 was to get my movement as smooth and predictable as possible, but at the start of the evening, I was far from smooth about it. I figured it would be ok because we were all watching the orbs to stay alive.
It turns out I was wrong. Several of my raiders were only watching the dragon.
Watch the Orbs AND the Dragon!
I know it’s my job to get the dragon positioned right, but I didn’t realize that there were people in the raid who never looked at the orbs. This wasn’t going to fly. There’s too much delay if they just position on the dragon. You need to watch both. But at least two of the healers told me that the dragon was in the way, and they were actually incapable of seeing orbs anywhere in the room. Their only possible reference point was the dragon.
I get a little irritated when people tell me they can’t do something that their fellow raiders are doing just fine. One of the healers was seriously fighting with me, like it was my fault she died to cutters. Well, I know when I screw up, and I do it all the time and call myself out on Mumble for it. But I stand my ground when I’ve got something right. I was tanking it right, and her awareness needed some work. Her survivability was partially my job, but she needed to take some responsibility for it, too.
I pulled out an argument I save for special occasions: “Maybe Rhidach can do it that way, but I’m not him, so you’ll have to deal with me. If I’m tanking, you need to figure out some way to watch orbs. I will not have the dragon moving so perfectly that you can survive just by looking at him. So let’s all agree to be better- I will adjust earlier, and tell you when I’m moving. And you will glance up at orbs when DBM shouts at you that cutters are about to come, so you don’t die. Now, pull it again.”
And then we pulled again. There’s something to be said for winning a fight by steamrolling the competition. I wasn’t even the raid leader, but most of the time when Rhidach’s not around, I end up as the de facto raid leader since no one else steps up. People tend to listen, and I take advantage of it.
To be fair to the people having trouble with cutters, I made a serious effort to be as vocal on Mumble as I could possibly be, and I moved the dragon a lot more preemptively. I tanked better for it.
The End
It really wasn’t much more complicated than that. We just had to live through cutters. Eventually, we all lived through them … and he fell over and coughed up the purps! After just two hours of work. Not too shabby. What was so hard about that? /preen /highfive
Halion Heroic… what a fun fight. I can’t believe we didn’t hit it before.
It was challenging, and very punishing of anyone with low raid awareness, yet extremely doable by a relatively competent 10 man raid once everyone watches their surroundings. I actually thought that was one of my favorite fights on 10 that I’ve done recently, and it felt good to kill it. A sunday night well spent.
Would just like to second the awesomeness of Mumble, the comm I’m in has been using it since before I joined and it’s far better than the alternatives.
Mumble sounds awesome. I’ve always hated the lag you get from Vent, but I did not know of any other options. Do you have any advice on a reputable Mumble hosting service?
@Rhidach
I’ve heard good things about mmo-mumble.com.
One thing we found really helpful was for the shadow-tank to be at the extreme leading edge of their pie-slice.
If you’re centered, the raid has a very small amount of room to work with to avoid cleave/breath. Leaving room for the raid to stay forward increases their ability to stand and channel casts, if needed, and generally gives them more room for dropping consumption without getting breathed on.
EDIT: Gratz on the kill.
@Anafielle
Thanks, Mel! I know I could use some work in terms of getting positioned right. I was really focused on keeping myself alive and not making any embarrassing mistakes; centering was how I did that. Now that I – and the rest of the raid – feel pretty comfortable about living through cutters, we can start to put ourselves in the right spots….
Leading edge, huh… *thinks* This would put the raid’s pie slice on the back leg, well placed to avoid parry hasting, right?
I have this sinking, awful feeling that when we do RS25 on Heroic, Rhidach might put me in the shadow realm and make gleeful noises about how “you tweeted that it was fun” and “you have more experience.”
@Rhidach
I think you should tank shadow side when we do H RS 25. You tweeted that it was fun and, besides, you have more experience.
@Anafielle
Slash cry!
Parry-hasting was a big problem for us, in 25man, until we adopted leading-edge positioning. It was one of the issues solved. It wasn’t the only issue, though, or I wouldn’t have mentioned it, as parry-haste is supposed to be a thing of the past.
Good luck in 25man.
I’ve only ever done normal modes in RS, but we found huge success in kiting Halion around the edge of the circle, there is barley any movement. I don’t know how well this would work with heroic, but we have always dropped right behind him(careful not to hit the tail) by the time we get back around(we usually don’t) the consumptions are gone. we may try halion on heroic next time like this. are the slices too thin to do this? or will we just have to be on the ball?
Gratz on getting him down!
@Anafielle
I honestly have never heard of this strat. My assumption is that the slices are too thin to do it, but you could certainly try.
While I agree the raid should be watching the orbs, a slow and steady kite is infinitely preferable to moving just when cutters spawn, as it keeps your raid corralled in the one spot and means that you don’t run the risk of someone getting breathed on or tail whipped as you move the dragon, and you also don’t have to waste time calling out “about to move” and then moving, you’re already doing it.
I’ll note that we haven’t yet killed Halion heroic, and have only done a couple nights attempts, but our shadow side tanking was causing us a lot of wipes until we just adopted the normal-mode strategy of a slow rotation of the dragon, and then it went flawlessly.
I agree that the raid should be able to move when appropriate and dodge the cutters, breaths, and whips, but its risky, and a good strategy is about minimising risk, not saying “just don’t fuck up”
@Anafielle
Our raid has always been pretty well split on whether “constant movement” or “only move for cutters” is better. On normal, we move; on heroic, we sit still.
The group I was with decided to use the “only move for cutters” strat before I was even part of the group. I didn’t put it together; I was pulled in last-minute. We all unanimously preferred moving for only a few seconds at time time to moving the whole way around. It was the healers who called for it most. Alright, and me. Personally, I feel like we’d've wiped a ton more if the whole raid had kept shifting instead of the very obvious, very brief strat we chose.
But this is a personal preference, I believe. Moving clearly works better for you! I think every raid is different in how they choose to approach this, and there isn’t necessarily a right answer. (Another reason why I like this fight!)
“Infinitely preferable” is a bit strong. Constant movement brings the cost of much lower P2 dps. In heroic 25man, the enrage timer is (was, anyway) very much in play.
A good strategy is about maximizing your chance of success at an encounter. That isn’t always about minimizing risk. Sometimes it is, and minimizing risk while meeting the other constraints of the fight is always a good idea. But minimizing risk doesn’t get you anywhere if you can’t meet the other fight requirements.
We found this out only a week or so after the patch hit: turns out he’ll Mark of Consumption/Combustion whomever is standing closest to the boss. So on 25, we just put a mage well inside his hitbox and had them blink out when debuffed. Wish we’d known that on progression. xD
@Anafielle
Gasp! That is awesome! No wonder our rogue got it four times in a row one time. How cool; I will definitely keep this in mind for future tries!!
Something Ana didn’t mention is, as the Fire side tank, she made sure she had 3 Holy Power before portaling in so she could take a big aggro lead on Hal, allowing us to pop Bloodlust immediately. Holding the boss still and popping BL meant that we dodged the Cutters only twice before the ranged were popping back out to the physical realm to finish her off.
Also, if you’re raid leading this encounter, and choose to spin the boss in the center of the room as we do, I cannot stress enough how helpful it is to have all the casters standing behind the direction that you’re turning the boss. If worse comes to worse, you can survive a tail swipe, but you will not survive a cleave or breath.
In the end, consistency is key. If your raid is used to the tank hugging the leading edge of the cutters, I don’t see why you shouldn’t continue to do it in hard mode. The dps knowing instinctively where they’re safe is one key to getting through the shadow realm with everyone alive (and hopefully avoiding your tank pulling her “Rhidach Card” on you.)
@Anafielle
Did I mention that my favorite boomkin was there? He’s the one who had the shadow tank experience on his pally? :D Who was there so I could ask him questions? And the one who is *always* in the right place in every fight? And the one who totally had my back when I was telling everyone to watch orbs? <3
I will hug the leading edge of the cutters next time. I was honestly more stressed about keeping myself alive, but now that I have some practice, I can be better about the positioning so you guys are more towards the back of the boss.
It makes me happy that you read the blog!
Thanks for all the props, Ana, though there were several times when I was definitely not in the right place on that fight and got a Cutter “TO THE FACE”.
Also I wasn’t suggesting at all that you should tank toward the leading edge of a cutter (I don’t think that position would be best for our heroic strat). I was just pointing out that consistency is the key, and you did a great job of having Hal in the same spot everytime.
This is a great glory fight for a tank. So many times the tank stands still and solely focuses on pumping out threat so the Boomkin doesn’t catch her. Having the whole raid on your dainty, armored shoulders in the Shadow realm earns enermous cred. I’m still getting adoring emails from a certain Priestess from the time I got to tank it. =)
@hazmacewillraid
It was weird for me to be tanking that fight again. My old 10m was working on that for quite a while before the group fell apart at the seams, so I was fairly familiar with fire tanking. We wiped so much in p2 that, at the transition, I would just get up and go do something else until I heard “And two healers down, wipe it!”
But anyway… the placing of blame on you for positioning the dragon and calling out all that stuff on Mumble: ridiculous. The cutters move at a constant speed, so as long as you know where they are, you only really have to watch the dragon. It’s not like we would’ve hit the enrage timer if people simply stopped DPSing and avoided death.
You also had 3 healers in there during p2, so if one needed to move because she was in a bad position, it’s not like it would’ve been a wipe either.
Complaining about “not being able” to do something that should be second nature by now really grinds my gears.
@Anafielle
I hate fire side tanking, and you are so great for taking that boring role. At least our wipes were mostly p3 so you weren’t too bored. Last time we did this fight and I was on fire side, I hated every minute of it – nothing to do – I was reading a book for most of the raid.
Re: the blame. The same things that irritate you, irritate me. I tried to be fair about it, and I don’t like to rage at people without pointing out something I can fix too…. but frankly that excuse was BS. It definitely helped when I tried really hard to tell them really loudly (obnoxiously?) when I was moving…