GC sez: LoH only causes Forbearance if self-cast

A welcome clarification.

The change we’re thinking about now is that LoH only causes Forbearance if you cast it on yourself. A paladin healing a paladin tank wouldn’t run into the Forbearance problem.

We don’t think the paladin tank needs to be able to stack both tools at once. If you know big damage is coming you can use Divine Protection. If you managed to take the big damage, you can use Lay on Hands.

Fair enough.

17 Comments to “GC sez: LoH only causes Forbearance if self-cast”

  1. Vorian87 5 November 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    a victory of sorts

  2. Tengen 5 November 2009 at 5:22 pm #

    still can’t save myself; and now demands a holy or ret paladin be in the raid for this awesome cooldown (honestly, I always got the most use out of it in 5mans, where having it disable my 2nd cooldown will still really hurt)

    but at least my shieldwall can’t be taken away from me

  3. adgamorix 5 November 2009 at 5:24 pm #

    I’ll bet a week of using nothing but a slow flyer without crusader aura that this will change again.

  4. tankadin 5 November 2009 at 7:33 pm #

    I 99% believe they fucked with us by saying any casting of LoH on a target would cause forbearance. Nerfing it in this way after all these years makes it easier to swallow, or so Blizzard’s PR team (GC) thinks.

    Look for more nerfs in the future on other classes to be delivered in this fashion.

    *Removes tin foil hat

  5. The Renaissance Man 5 November 2009 at 8:04 pm #

    It’s an improvement, but it still doesn’t address the root problem, which doesn’t actually have anything to do with LoH. Why are paladins the only tanking class who have a debuff associated with our primary defensive cooldown?

  6. Hp
    @iamapaladin
     6 November 2009 at 1:03 am #

    I kind of understand why they removed Forbearance for Holy (via talents) for LoH because they’re treating it like Divine Plea when it was a problem.

    Remember when Divine Plea was so good for holy pallies so they nerfed it so that 50% healing done when you use it because they said that Divine Plea was meant to help ret and prot not as for holy? Yeah, that’s kinda what they’re doing with LoH IMO by adding forbearance and making Holy the only spec to use it w.o any repercussion (unless on self).

    It’s still a clunky way to go about it but again, it’s nerf due to PVP reasons that is affecting PVE.

  7. Sid 6 November 2009 at 6:19 am #

    I’ll settle with this.

  8. Falowin 6 November 2009 at 10:35 am #

    I think rogues should have Lay On Hands….

    • Rhidach
      @Rhidach
       6 November 2009 at 11:11 am #

      I question you, Falowin.

  9. Doxa
    @PinkRaidFrames
     6 November 2009 at 11:08 am #

    Yeah. I’m pretty damn sick of PvE nerfs as a result of PvP.

    This basically means that I’ll never use LoH if I haven’t already used DP. If given the choice between the two I’d pick DP over LoH anytime.

    • Rhidach
      @Rhidach
       6 November 2009 at 11:11 am #

      Agreed Doxa. I’ll probably just use my LoH as a pinch heal for someone if I notice they’re about to die.

  10. Doxa
    @PinkRaidFrames
     6 November 2009 at 11:18 am #

    I really do think you’re right though. I’d love to have a “stance” to eliminate these issues instead of the constant changes.

    The main problem however would be a pally “stance dance”. Ret stance, stance dance, LoH, then back to Ret stance.

    As far as I’m concerned I’d even settle for prohibiting the ability to switch stances in combat.

    • Rhidach
      @Rhidach
       6 November 2009 at 12:07 pm #

      Or a mana wipe making it a huge burden to do.

  11. Demogar 6 November 2009 at 1:21 pm #

    This is what I figured would be done with it. The first thing I said when I saw the changes was that they should make it only cause Forbearance when it was self cast. If they want to make it so Prot and Ret Paladin don’t use them then this is an elegant solution. If that is their goal.

    Being nerfed for PvP sucks. PvP is why I do terrible tanking DPS and can’t get a shorter cooldown on Shockwave to improve my AoE threat and have to rely on Vigilance’s mega threat modifiers instead of increasing our damage. It sucks… hard.

  12. adgamorix 6 November 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    It’s still a clunky mechanic. I’m betting we see it change to something closer to AW – you can’t use them within 30 sec of each other or something.

  13. Demogar 6 November 2009 at 4:35 pm #

    I think that is wishful thinking.

    I think Blizzard is trying to take LoH completely out of a tank’s spellbook. If they did that then you would still have access to both incredibly reliably which isn’t what they want.

    I am not saying that is fair but I think that is their intention.

  14. Suicidal Zebra
    @suicidalzebra
     6 November 2009 at 8:16 pm #

    With the exception of Holy Paladins (who could just as easily have a talent which allowed LoH to be used on oneself), how is this objectively better than last weeks version where LoH could not be used on yourself? Different, certainly. Definitely more complicated. But if you start from the proviso that self-LoH was really only an issue in BG’s the approach taken, i.e. Forbearance, is over-complicated and unwarranted.

    at least, that my opinion ;)