How I specced in 3.2
This post is long overdue, but I wanted to take some time to explain my current spec and specifically some choices I did or did not make.
Here is the spec in all its glory: 0/53/18.
Crusade > SotP
One of the bigger choices I made when talenting was speccing into Ret for Crusade rather than Seals of the Pure. Why did I do this? Well, primarily because the Crusade talent may seem like less threat on paper this is only when considering it at the 3% level. When facing Undead/Humanoid/Elemental/Demon mobs, the damage bonus jumps to 6% and that is when Crusade really begins to shine.
I wrote extensively about the two talents when SotP was first changed for the better.
Now, Northrend is still crawling with Scourge (Undead) and Humanoids, and because the Coliseum is, excepting Icehowl and the two Jormungar, packed to the brim with UHED bosses, it makes sense to choose Crusade over SotP. You’re going to get more mileage out of the former talent.
2/2 Imp Judgements
Like Randall in Clerks 2, I’m taking back 2/2 Imp Judgements. If anyone calls you on dropping a second point in this talent, all you need to know is this: any tank worth their salt has the discipline to maintain 969 even if a cooldown is up one second earlier. If you’re using Judgement when it isn’t Judgement’s turn, you’re not doing a proper rotation. Additionally, an 8 second Judgement is much more convenient for trash when a steady rotation is impossible, so it makes sense not to artificially restrict yourself to a 9 second Judgement.
Where else would that point go? Benediction? Meh. 1/1 Improved Blessing of Might? Nah. Topping off Imp Judgements is the logical choice.
Talents you still want to avoid
Stoicism, Guardian’s Favor, and Improved Hammer of Justice are really more pvp-flavored and have no place in a strictly pve spec. There are some merits to the latter talent, but I’d rather focus on my own job in a raid than a rogue’s.
Divinity is still bad. 5% heals sounds great, but the ROI is not worth the 5 talents points.
Likewise, Reckoning has some synergy with SotP, but in lieu of an SotP spec, it’s not worth getting. The tps return per talent point isn’t worth depriving yourself a mitigation talent like Divine Guardian.
In which I backtrack
Now, one caveat: we all have the two-point “fluff” bridge to carry us past the lower-tree talents to Blessing of Sanctuary and beyond. I spent my two bridge points on Divine Guardian. If you raid with nothing but Holy Paladins out the wazoo, DG is not an ideal talent, assuming they have it as well and they’re slapping an improved Sacred Shield on you and the other tanks.
I am unfortunately not so lucky, the Holy Pallies in my guild being addicted to Ret tree crit still. Alas, DG is for me. If you are so lucky, however, it is not a terrible idea to spend those bridge points on Improved Hammer of Justice for a 40 second cooldown, or Reckoning for a 60 tps gain. You do after all have to spend those points somewhere in that early portion of the Prot tree.
Now I turn the floor to you all. How are you speccing this patch?
Armory Feed
@AvengingWrathy
14 August 2009 at 3:36 pm #
Great minds think alike…
I was never a fan of PoJ in Ulduar because most of the encounters don’t have you running all over the place, just yogg for the most part, but once the TotC came out, I found it useful enough to drop the 50 gold and pick it up.
0/53/18 all the way.
I’m with you, although I prefer the 2 points in PoJ spent in Conviction. Also, I put a point into Benediction just for the sake of it. I guess at this stage, it’s all semantics. The basics are all in agreement. :)
I do like reckoning though, I just can’t bring myself to drop SS for it. But then I don’t raid so it’s rare I have a Holy Paladin to do that for me. :)
Im still 0/53/18 (V.3.1), why? because I’m lazy, and cheap, and… truly, i dont see it to be so much of a deal… but well, i guess i will try it. 2% crit for a passive demor shout, cool, and well the point from benediction into imp judgements, well, could be worse. just a bridge point with no big implications, otherwise, same build XD
My prot build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIufdgsM0bM:pGkczm
(0/54/17)
I must be the black sheep of the tankadin family, but please let me explain before typing “nub l2p ur spec suks” (because I know more than one will think that).
The non-standard things of my spec?
- Two points in Spiritual Attuenemnt
- Only one point in Imp. Judgements (this used to be the rule)
- Two points in Benediction instead of any talent that increases dps (and therefore tps)
- Full PoJ AND Vindication
Why? Because I have mana issues.
My raid composition often lacks any replenisher (Ret Pala, Shadow Priest, Surv Hunter or Frost Mage… and our Destro Warlocks for some reason don’t spec into Imp. Soul Leech because it “lowers their dps”… damn, DPS metters should be forbidden). And heroics aren’t that good either. PuGers pull when I’m at less than half my mana bar (and if I complain, the answer is “qq nub l2p this is ez-mode pally mana infinite”).
Keeping up Divine Plea in thrash is very difficult, as the effect only lasts 15 seconds and it finishes between thrash pulls. And 90% of the time in a heroic you’re killing thrash. No problem on boss fights.
And PoJ… I had it in all my builds even before it was cool to have, the character kind of feels “slow” without it.
@Sid: man, np with your build, it´s a GAME, and tehrefore everyone can do whatever they please with their leisure time, right?
However, I would like to know a few more things about your gear lvl and playstyle, why? because personally, I haven’t run into mana issues with just 1 SA point, not on H runs, or raids.
Maybe it’s because I’m a chain puller (which is specially easy on heroics and content I overgear), why? because it keeps people moving, you get to refresh Divine Plea, and IF you can stand the beating, go ahead and pull 2 or more pats to ensure you are getting some heals.
Also, make sure that if you are running low on mana you judge wisdom, it realy helps a LOT on those rough spots when you didn’t get to refresh DP in time and it’s mana cost is really low.
Imp Judgements is by no ways “a must have” talent, its just a filler point to get a bit deeper into the ret tree.
Replenisment is not really “mandatory” unlesss its a 25 man setting you are setting foot into, because thanks to our seal/judge mechanic we can top ourselves pretty quick.
SA 2/2 seems overkill to me, we almost always get a constant influx of heals, and the only time I felt tempted to take it was on my first attempts at Vezax, and even there I managed to survive with just 1 point.
So, in the end i believe you:
a. Have ttoo much avoidance and have too many hits being missed, dodged or parried and the small mana bonus regen from BoSanct wont be enough to save you.
b. You have a crapload of block value and take very very very little dmg on thrash mobs, which leads to the small mana returns from blocks while under the efffect of BoSanct
Vindication, is very nice mitigation talent and best of all, its passive!
So, long story short, I dont believe your build sucks, but I do feel it could be further enhanced, but as long as you feel it suits your playing style and the BBB bites the dust (which was to be the purpose to get into a group, no?) its all fine to me.
And, IF you find yourself running OOM, just run up a bit ahead and pull another group, and then another, so thay can keep on pounding on you.
PD: I forgot one situation where I actually have mana issues: runninga a 5 man with a disc priest as healer, IF such a thing happens, i have to pull half the instance just not to run OOM
Thanks for your advices, Logan! =)
Here’s my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ragnaros&n=Sidheknight
xD
De hecho, revisando tu gear, no encuentro razon para que estés perdiendo aggro o mana, en Heroics o en thrash pulls de raid, simplemente empieza a correr de medio lado cuando el mob esté a punto de morir, y ve puleando el siguiente grupo, eso asegura que DP no se termina (es aun mas facil con PoJ), en resumen, si te quedas sin mana en un H es porque no estas puleando suficientes mobs, y si es en raid es por una muy mala racha de avoidance, o por no tener BoSanc
Oh, y aqui hay una guia para eso del no estar OOM (hecha por Knaughty de maintankadin):
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21933
@Sid: man, np with your build, it´s a GAME, and tehrefore everyone can do whatever they please with their leisure time, right?
However, I would like to know a few more things about your gear lvl and playstyle, why? because personally, I haven’t run into mana issues with just 1 SA point, not on H runs, or raids.
Maybe it’s because I’m a chain puller (which is specially easy on heroics and content I overgear), why? because it keeps people moving, you get to refresh Divine Plea, and IF you can stand the beating, go ahead and pull 2 or more pats to ensure you are getting some heals.
Also, make sure that if you are running low on mana you judge wisdom, it realy helps a LOT on those rough spots when you didn’t get to refresh DP in time and it’s mana cost is really low.
Imp Judgements is by no ways “a must have” talent, its just a filler point to get a bit deeper into the ret tree.
Replenisment is not really “mandatory” unlesss its a 25 man setting you are setting foot into, because thanks to our seal/judge mechanic we can top ourselves pretty quick.
SA 2/2 seems overkill to me, we almost always get a constant influx of heals, and the only time I felt tempted to take it was on my first attempts at Vezax, and even there I managed to survive with just 1 point.
So, in the end i believe you:
a. Have ttoo much avoidance and have too many hits being missed, dodged or parried and the small mana bonus regen from BoSanct wont be enough to save you.
b. You have a crapload of block value and take very very very little dmg on thrash mobs, which leads to the small mana returns from blocks while under the efffect of BoSanct
Vindication, is very nice mitigation talent and best of all, its passive!
So, long story short, I dont believe your build sucks, but I do feel it could be further enhanced, but as long as you feel it suits your playing style and the BBB bites the dust (which was to be the purpose to get into a group, no?) its all fine to me.; @Sid: man, np with your build, it´s a GAME, and tehrefore everyone can do whatever they please with their leisure time, right?
However, I would like to know a few more things about your gear lvl and playstyle, why? because personally, I haven’t run into mana issues with just 1 SA point, not on H runs, or raids.
Maybe it’s because I’m a chain puller (which is specially easy on heroics and content I overgear), why? because it keeps people moving, you get to refresh Divine Plea, and IF you can stand the beating, go ahead and pull 2 or more pats to ensure you are getting some heals.
Also, make sure that if you are running low on mana you judge wisdom, it realy helps a LOT on those rough spots when you didn’t get to refresh DP in time and it’s mana cost is really low.
Imp Judgements is by no ways “a must have” talent, its just a filler point to get a bit deeper into the ret tree.
Replenisment is not really “mandatory” unlesss its a 25 man setting you are setting foot into, because thanks to our seal/judge mechanic we can top ourselves pretty quick.
SA 2/2 seems overkill to me, we almost always get a constant influx of heals, and the only time I felt tempted to take it was on my first attempts at Vezax, and even there I managed to survive with just 1 point.
So, in the end i believe you:
a. Have ttoo much avoidance and have too many hits being missed, dodged or parried and the small mana bonus regen from BoSanct wont be enough to save you.
b. You have a crapload of block value and take very very very little dmg on thrash mobs, which leads to the small mana returns from blocks while under the efffect of BoSanct
Vindication, is very nice mitigation talent and best of all, its passive!
So, long story short, I dont believe your build sucks, but I do feel it could be further enhanced, but as long as you feel it suits your playing style and the BBB bites the dust (which was to be the purpose to get into a group, no?) its all fine to me.;;
Hi Rhi,
I also did the same build as yours going down the ret tree then the SOTP because of the reason you had mentioned. Even for non UHED bosses, we still do pretty ok threat. But going down the ret tree, we can get pursuit of Justice which i think helps me especially for mimiron and other fast moving fights.
Another thing to mention about 2/2 improve judge same reason as yours but in addition, you want a faster cool down on your taunts. If the adds are loose after using taunts, you want your taunt to refresh as quickly as possible.
I did however get the Divine Guardian for utility purposes rather then the sacred shield i under utilize. I find too many pallies ignore DG to the point none have it. Anyway i setup a working macro that activates divine shield, then i activate divine guardian, then i can click to remove DS e.g. the decon boss etc.