Oh, things used to be so simple. 53/18 was our max threat spec and you could get every utility talent you wanted along the way. Now, how complicated it all seems.
Blizz changed Seals of the Pure so that 15% damage modifier also applies to the 33% weapon damage bonus you get with a five stack up. This change means (as calculated by the amazing Theck) that 5/5 SotP is worth as much threat as the 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (major caveat on this below) pairing that most of us are running around with today.
To summarize Theck’s findings, this brave new world of threat looks like this against non-Undead/Humanoid/Demon/Elemental mobs:
- 5/5 SotP == 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade
- 4/5 SotP is ~70 less TPS than the 3/5 + 3/3 pairing above
- 5/5 SotP + 3/5 Reckoning > 3/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (by ~80 tps)
- 5/5 SotP + 3/5 Reckoning > 5/5 Conviction + 3/3 Crusade (by ~10 tps)
Ultimately, there are several specs that cascade from this change:
4/53/15 – This spec takes most of the mitigation utility talents plus the delightfulness of PoJ. It’s less threat than the standard 3.1 spec, but not by much.
5/54/12 — This trades PoJ and DG for the final point in SotP and 3/5 Reckoning. This spec is worth ~170 more tps, but you’re trading off 15% run speed and a buffed Sacred Shield for that extra oomph.
0/53/18 — I know everything written thus far implies you can ignore Crusade, but the problem with that is this: if you’re fighting any of the mob types that Crusade does 6% damage to, then this spec is worth about ~140 more tps than 5/5 SotP, but when you’re not getting 6%, this spec is ~100 tps less than 5/5 SotP.
Considering you’re going to encounter more humanoids/undead in 5mans and outside of instances (along with most of the encounters in the Coliseum falling into the 6% category), overall you’ll probably get more threat with the third spec.
If in Ulduar you’re threat goes down a little (and for sure, in the great scheme of things, if you’re doing 8000 tps, 100 tps isn’t that big of a loss) it probably won’t be the worst thing in the world, because you’ll end up with more threat in the Coliseum with Crusade than otherwise.
For anyone who follows my Twitter, you’d have seen this morning that I pronounced Crusade was dead. As I’m sure you all know by now, I tend to stack haste rating IRL, and that was probably a case of me greatly exaggerating Crusade’s demise.
Ultimately though the one absolute you can walk away with from this post from is this: you want Divine Guardian and you want Vindication. Survivability is always a higher priority than 100-200 additional tps.
“i stack haste IRL” made me laugh
great post! I found your site about a year ago and it convinced me to re-roll my paladin prot spec. Since then I leveled a BE paladin to play with my RL friends and have been prot spec the entire time! Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the compliment. Will do!
Eh, so the warlock will die just a wee bit faster, no big deal. ;)
“Eh, so the warlock will die just a wee bit faster, no big deal. ;)”
You get a free cookie
Not that it matters much, I find 4/55/12 to be my preferred for 3.2. I rely on the interrupt from Hammer of Justice, so having that drastically reduced cool down makes for a more reliable interrupt rotation. I spec more for utility then threat. I have very little issue with threat now, so having Divine Guardian and improved Hammer of Justice makes most use of my raid group and make-up.
Just my 2 cents.
Why Vindication? Trash isn’t THAT big a of a deal – and Vindication does not have any effect on raid bosses.
I suppose if you use it for PvP…
Vindication is being changed in 3.2 to reduce attack power only and will work for bosses. It’s basically Demo Shout but auto-applied using attacks. It’s a huge mitigation buff when up and definitely recommended!
Ahh, I hadn’t seen that change proposed.
So, it will stack with Judgements of the Just then as well?
-20% attack speed (JotJ)
– AP (Vind) ?
I leveled as Prot spec and am newly arrived at 80. I have lots of instances ahead of me before I can raid, and forgive me for a possibly noob question, but I still wonder what is the utility of Divine Sacrifice and Divine Guardian? Can they be skipped through Naxx10/25?
In what situations do people find themselves using DS and DG?
@Redys: I actually have a post about when to use DivSac! I would say it’s probably negligible for Naxx since there aren’t many heavy-raid-damage encounters. For Ulduar you definitely want it. Not sure about the Coliseum.
@Glaneon: Yep, those both stack for some amazing mitigation.
@Glaneon:
Think of it this way:
JotJ = (Imp.) Thunderclap
Vindication = (Imp.) Demoralizing Shout
Both together is crazy good for mitigation.
I would get that reckoning out of there and never, EVER mention it again, except perhaps shamefully to my closest friends as an admission of guilt. No tank worth their salt uses reckoning in anything, especially since Wrath came and horde got SoV, which receives basically no benefit from Reck (though I guess it will in 3.2). Reckoning’s an extremely expensive talent for not a lot of return. Still, reckoning is at best a minor threat bump (it only helps white hits, which account for very little threat) and at worst a detriment to your survival (the mythical parry-haste on bosses).
As an addendum, these days I think I’d call any tank without Pursuit of Justice in their spec pretty foolish. And only if I was forced to mince my words around polite company. 15% move speed is gigantic.
Hold the phone!
All of your specs have 2/2 into Improved Judgements. Everything I’ve ever known about our best threat rotation means that you’ve just clipped your 969. Has something changed and I didn’t get the memo?
/scratcheshead
@Burntpepperoni: 2/2 Imp Judgements is considered not as bad as it used to be for two reasons: one, it’s really helpful for trash, and two if you have the discipline not to go crazy and roll your face on the keyboard (aka you’re not using a FCFS threat rotation), it won’t hurt 969 for Judgement to come off cooldown a second faster.
You’ll get more mileage out of that extra point in 2/2 IJ than from 1% less mana use on instant cast abilities.
@Dave: I appreciate the theatrics but you’re a tad behind the times. Reckoning has gotten a second life thanks to the changes to SoV and SotP (i.e., there’s a slight synergy now) and is not a “dirty, shameful secret” anymore. Look at the numbers above and you’ll see in situations when you’re not fighting Undead/Humanoids/Demons/Elementals you’d actually get more threat from a SotP/Reck build than a Crusade/Conviction build.
Of course, considering aside from Ulduar basically all you encounter are those four mob types, Crusade/Conviction is a better choice, which is why I recommend a Crusade build still.