Better Late Than Never Friday 5/22
Aha, so the prodigal feature returns. Actually, truth be told, I forgot to upload a bunch of screenshots last night, so you all will just have to wait to hear epic tales of how I afk’d while tanking Loatheb or other somesuch nonsense. Now now, be brave. I know you’re all troopers. We are tankadins after all. Chin up.
Patronizing goofiness aside, BLTNF is a stupid feature where I put up some random Google searches that brought people to this site and attempt to answer them, or at least elaborate more than the post that brought them here in the first place did.
armor pen tankadin
Armor penetration is terrible for Paladin tanks. Most of our damage is Holy, which bypasses armor by default. ArP only benefits one thing: auto-attack. As such, avoid this stat at all costs, and yes, pass on Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace.
best blue/purple gem paladin tank
Best blue gem is Solid Sky Sapphire. Best purple is Regal Twilight Opal (although there’s something to be said for Shifting Twilight Opal).
best cloak enchant for lvl 80 pally tank
If you’re not crit capped, go with Titanweave. I just picked up Cloak of the Makers, and I was sitting at 552 defense, so I decided to be a little bold and put Greater Agility on it. Basically, Titanweave is .39% avoidance (dodge/parry/miss) and .13% block chance, whereas Greater Agility is .42% avoidance, 44 Armor, and .42% crit. Considering I don’t need the extra defense, the loss of block, gain of avoidance, and gain of armor/crit is a good trade.
best profession combo tankadin
Jewelcrafting + Blacksmithing. Expensive, but when epic gems are out you’ll get the most stamina any profession can give.
bug freya heal herself after adds are down
She’ll continue to heal herself until all adds are killed and her stacks are reduced to 0. Also kill that tree that pops up for time to time, as that’ll heal her if it “ripens”.
cleanse failing fusion punch
I have never heard of cleanse missing. Two possibilities I can imagine: you used it during a GCD so it never applied or you used it prematurely before the dot was on and there was nothing to cleanse.
dodge vs parry gems for tankadins
Dodge. Parry point-for-point gives less avoidance than Dodge. More on that here.
does mob level effect weapon leveling?
Honestly, I can’t find any proof of this, but I think it does. I think you have a much better chance of levelling skill against a mob that you would get experience from (or theoretically would, if not level capped). Just spend a night in Naxx or Uld and if you enter at 399, by the time you leave you should hit 400.
improved blessing of might vs conviction 3.1 prot build
Conviction is much better for tanks. Hopefully there’s a ret pally in your run and 9 times out of 10 they’ll have Imp BoM in their build.
shoulderguards of the solemn watch or t7.5 shoulders
T7.5. More avoidance and gem slots are for teh win.
why don’t paladins stack parry?
See the dodge vs parry question above.
why is my tankadin oom?
I hope that “m” stands for mayonnaise. A paladin tank should never run out of mana as long as you have at least 1 point in Spiritual Attunement, and make sure to keep Divine Plea up as much as possible. Blessing of Sanctuary isn’t as critical as it was before 3.1, but it definitely still helps (especially if you way overgear an instance).
Armory Feed
humm right now, i usually self-cleanse the Falcon Punch. and reserve a GCD for the cleanse, while slowly moving backwards to avoid keeping the boss on the Rune of Ownage (hate it when they synch), so i just take a couple steps back, and have my healers focused on keeping me up. And no, I dont lose threat, 1 GCD is not gonna make your DPS cry while you build Threat.
The only time it happens is when they dont use their aggro reducing tools (Soul shatter, vanish, etc) when I announce that im going to use hand of Salvation on myself. And if they die, its their own fault =P
@honorshammer
22 May 2009 at 1:01 pm #
“I have never heard of cleanse missing. Two possibilities I can imagine: you used it during a GCD so it never applied or you used it prematurely before the dot was on and there was nothing to cleanse.”
http://wowwebstats.com/6cvtbu3sabbci?s=127231-143403&bl=142072
0:03’54.375 Honorshammer gains 1297 health from Zadorr Lifebloom.
0:03’54.375 Honorshammer gains 2047 health from Zadorr Rejuvenation.
0:03’54.500 Ofn melee swing hits Runemaster Molgeim for 801 Physical. (Critical)
0:03’54.500 Honorshammer Cleanse fails to dispel Honorshammer Fusion Punch.
0:03’54.656 Runemaster Molgeim suffers 4966 Physical damage from Origami Rip. (Critical)
0:03’54.656 Steelbreaker suffers 311 Holy damage from Honorshammer Consecration. (35 Resisted)
0:03’54.656 Blackhaus Grace was removed from Ellevis.
0:03’54.656 Ofn gains Grace.
O
M
G
!
!
Now what are the odds on THAT?!
@Rhidach
22 May 2009 at 1:54 pm #
Interesting.
That specific ability was (is?) glitched. Wasnt cleansable for a bit when it came out, but I THINK its been fixed now.
well, so far so god for me, i haven’t had such a wipe-o-licious incident yet…
What do you mean by GCD ? Global Cooldown ? I thought cleanse had it’s own cool down.
Of course you only reserve the cleanse for yourself when the boss starts casting, and time it so you cleanse in decursive as soon as he casts it on you.
Quartz helps a lot because you can time the cleanse more accuarately.
cleanse has no Cooldown, only the GCD, and as such, i i cast Judgement 0.4 secs before the Falcon punch hits me, i wont be able to cleanse the debuff fast enough, so when i see the warning i stop doing everything else and spam Cleanse on myself, while moving a bit backwards and holding my fingers near my Bubblewall hotkey in case it doesnt go according to plan
Oh i get it Logan. Yes i know what your talking about. But with Quartz i wait till the cast bar is somewhere in the middle during his cast before i stop casting anything while waiting to cleanse when he casts. I of course try to put down sacred shield though so it will be up at least while i self cleanse myself.
It’s these small details that keep us alive. And this is especially true for the Steeelbreaker fight.
A paladin tank can self cleanse i feel, but i would argue that it would help if 1 of your assigned healers also watches out for it and try to also cleanse. Whoever cleanses first doesn’t matter, as long as one out 2 people manages to cleanse on time. This is a safety measure :x
Anyway just another tank tip, i noticed my friend tank was still using Accuracy for my tank weapon enchant. The best tank enchant at the moment is Blade Ward which you can get the recipe from ulduar.
Whenever you use your weapon to attack the boss and it procs, you get 100 parry for a 10 second duration. According to other sources, this buff can be stacked meaning 5 stacks of it would be 1000 parry. Whenver it procs again to stack, the duration timer resets back to 10 seconds. So what that means is, it’s friggin awesome for a fast 1 hand tank weapon :D
I think it’s important to mention 3 spells.
Divine, Guardian, Hand of Salvation and Divine protection.
Divine Protection is a 2 minute cool down shield wall of sorts for Paladins. It reduces 50% of incoming damage from all sources for up to 10 seconds if i remember right. I never knew about this spell until another tankadin pointed it out to me, because as a ret Paladin i have been using Divine Shield since i first got it instead of Divine Protection, so i had forgotten about Divine Protection.
Hand of Salvation when cast on yourself, will reduce your threat over 10 seconds. But if you use the glyph of salvation, it will also reduce all damage by 20 % It has a 2 minute cooldown. The top Paladin Arso on Kalecgos told me about it’s use. He said this needs to be used smartly so you still have aggro and can use this as your 2nd shield wall of sorts. I will need to do more testing with this to get the hang of it.
Divine Guardian will soak up 30% of damage any player within your radius, 40 yards i think onto yourself. This ability however can only soak up to a total of 120% ish roughly of the tanks health. You can increase this cap by getting the improved talent which i did. To use it though, you should first pop divine shield, then immediately cast divine guardian. This way you will absorb the damage but not take any damage since divine shield is protecting you. You could use it without DS but i wouldn’t recommend it. This is nice for offtanks to have, but i would argue that maintanks should also grab this talent. I use it for Malygos and Deconstructor. However when using for Deconstructor, you must make sure you instantly remove divine Shield by right clicking the buff off as soon as Deconstructor finishes stomping. Or else he rapes your raid because he cannot aggro you will your in DS mode.
I’ve seen a good tank build, where you don’t spend points in Holy at all, instead you spend them in the retribution tree instead to get the talents which are better for threat.
I will try post the talent build i had in mind, but for now what do you think about 1/2 in spiritual attunement ? Is 5% of mana gained through heals enough compared to lv2 10% ?
@Rhidach
26 May 2009 at 10:22 am #
Yeah I find that with only 1/2 SA I still get more than enough mana from Divine Plea and Sanc when/if I have it on me. 2/2 is overkill in my experience.
yup, 2/2 is overkill unless you are tanking content that you overgear and you have a disc priest and dont pull the entire instance; just like UK H =P
and the build you might be referring to is on the idea of the 0/53/18. Regarding the “Raid bubblewall” combo you mentioned, it also works with Divine Protection because the HP limit is removed and you dont lose mob aggro. (another thing I use is having my finger hovering over LoH in case I get a HUGE DMG spike or mmy healers are not focused, but that has happened only once I think…)
Oh and about the T7.5 shoulders VS the Shoulderguards of the solemn watch, yeah, i agree, and I go with the tier 7.5 when im on my avoidance set, and the ULD shoulders when i need HP over avoidance ( Im thinking fights with loads of magical dmg, like hodir´s frozen blows)
@Rhidach
27 May 2009 at 8:34 am #
Hodir’s Frozen Blows you can actually trivialize with some frost resist gear. When he does that it converts 80% of his damage to Frost, so just slap on some resist and you’ll find you’re taking minimal damage from it.
I do Hodir with just 1 piece of frost resist and the frost aura…. but was just trying to put an example =P
I haven’t done Hodir yet but wearing my 3 pieces of frost gear i got more then 30k unbuffed but still 540 defense capped. From what i am reading get as high frost gear as you can while staying def capped, your healers will thank you for it.
Anyway…. i don’t really like using Divine Protection with Divine Guardian. There may be situation where you could do that, but when i’m fighting a very hard hitting boss, i don’t want to take the extra damage from others cauz big chance i will die.
Instead i use it for the limited situations i pointed out, where the boss is pre-occupied with something such as Maly Vortex or XT-Deconstructor stomping. Just as long as you remove Divine Shield after the aoe damage crisis is over, you should be fine.
May i ask though, isn’t Divine Guardian capped ? Your saying using either Divine Protection or Divine Shield removes the cap ? If that is the case, Divine Guardian is friggin awesome :D I got a bit dissapointed when they wanted to put a cap on it :[
Anyway i’m at work so lots of sites are blocked such as wowhead so i can’t show you the build i meant but this is the rough idea.
Holy
—–
Don’t get anything in this tree.
Protection
———-
Get the basics for the tanking talents in the protection tree.
Don’t get the increase healing talent since it doesn’t do that much.
Take out 1 point from spiritual attunement so it is 1/2
Don’t getting reckoning at all.
You can still get Divine Guardian and the Upgrade for it.
Retribution
———–
Get the basics you normally get for tanking such as 1/2 for the faster spell cooldown.
This part gets tricky. To get deeper in the tree to get the talents you need to boost threat, you must waste 1 point somewhere. People either waste 1 point for instant cast, or they 2/2 for the faster spell cooldown.
After this point you can spend the points to get the threat spells that better increases your threat output compared to if you used the points in the holy tree.
The issue with this is, was it worth it to waste that 1 talent point ? And where would you put it to get further into the ret tree.
@Rhidach
28 May 2009 at 8:24 am #
I would recommend my spec (of course I would, haha) of 53/18. I put that wayward point into Benediction, just because I didn’t want to deal with an 8 second judge. It’s totally a filler point.
And Divine Sacrifice is great. With 2/2 Divine Guardian, DS absorbs 30% of raid damage up to 165% of my health. Which means that I’m typically shaving around 66000 damage off the raid. Pretty nice number, even with a cap!
I think im using the exact same build as Rhidach… “tinfoil hat up”
Rhi, but Logan is saying that when using DS it removes the halth cap imposed when using Divine Guardian.
Does that mean we can soak in all damage indefinately until DS goes down ?
@Rhidach
29 May 2009 at 9:06 am #
Oh! My mistake I was thinking of potential health absorption. You could potentially absorb 30% of the raid damage, as long as you don’t die before the sum total you absorb equals 165% of your hp. DS makes it so you won’t die from absorbing the raid damage, but you still won’t shave off more than 165% of your hp as a number.
For example, I bubble and hit DivSac, so I start pulling in raid damage. Once I absorb (and negate, thanks to DivShield) 66000 damage, DivSac cuts off.