Second look at Seal of Command!
So a couple of months ago, when SoComm was first changed to its current Holy Cleavin’ incarnation in 3.2, I recommended against speccing into it. Well, the situation has changed somewhat and so has my position on SoComm.
Now, what changed was Shield of Righteousness (as mentioned earlier this week) had a mechanic tweak which made it parriable/dodgeable. Not only did this make expertise a very worthy threat stat under softcap, but it also had the side effect of making ShoR able to proc SoComm’s cleave proc. This suddenly makes SoComm viable for trash pulls (provided trash doesn’t survive more than 30 seconds) if you’re looking for a threat boost in that arena, or the joy of many yellow numbers.
Does this make SoComm mandatory? No. Does it make it useful and fun? Oh yes.
The cleave effect of Command will now proc from three of our attacks (please correct me, readers, if I missed one/others): ShoR, white melee attacks, and Judgements. However, Judgements will only proc the cleave (and this is also true for the additional proc of Seal of Vengeance) if you are specced into Judgements of the Just. Don’t ask why. Just keep that in mind for later in this post.
But how to pick up SoComm?
Well, you’ve got two options: one being just swap the lone point from Conviction into Seal of Command. The main downside to this is a single-target threat loss, and if you have Seal of Vengeance (which you likely do), you’re looking at a “wasted” glyph slot when SoV isn’t active.
The other way to get SoComm–and hell, the crazier way–is to make a separate spec for trash/heroics.
Wrathy inspired me with his epic tales of pulling crazy dps numbers in heroics with his specialized Heroic Anub’arak spec, the crux of which was Seal of Command. I, sick of ret and never using that offspec, followed Wrathy’s lead … though I find now I need to make a few tweaks to it since I’m using it on heroics trash and not Nerubian Burrowers.
The results otherwise were pretty impressive–I easily did most overall damage done in a UK run, and that was with frequent mana issues. Not the best metric, admittedly, but there is definitely potential here.
Putting a few tweaks in the new trash spec I’m going to adopt tonight, I placed a point in Spiritual Attunement, one in Judgements of the Just (so judging will proc the seal), leaving 3 in Reckoning, and skipping Vindication to put 3 overall in Conviction. Considering this is, as I said, a spec for heroics and trash (where survivability is not an issue), I’d rather max threat talents.
As for glyphs, I’m going to go with Holy Wrath, Hammer of the Righteous, and Judgement. Again, for threat maximizing. I won’t be using SoV in this trash spec
So overall, like I said, SoComm is not mandatory. It will not help you generate more threat on a boss or live longer. Rather it is for putting out some obscene numbers in heroics, farm content, or large packs of trash in raids (though there is something to be said for the cleave’s snap aggro potential).
I wish I had a screenshot of a cloud of yellow numbers to illustrate my point. Nonetheless, with all the heroics running we’ll be doing into the foreseeable future, SoComm has the bonus of making slogging through a heroic dungeon fun again.
Armory Feed
I was thinking about this myself, I think I’ll give it a try tonight.
@hazmacewillraid
17 December 2009 at 2:58 pm #
Even when I use SoV for tanking heroics, I get stupidly high numbers compared to some DPS. I’d love to see the numbers on this, but unfortunately Maintankadin isn’t loading for me.
Do you think getting the expertise soft cap without the SoV glyph is necessary in order to try this spec, or would the length of trash mob encounters negate it? (I’m pretty sure I’m at the soft cap without the glyph, but I was just curious.)
@Rhidach
17 December 2009 at 3:07 pm #
I’m thinking you’ll need to be softcapped, considering if only three attacks will proc the cleave and two of those attacks can be avoided by a mob, any parries or dodges will hurt how many cleave procs you get.
I have actually seen a tank (who shall remain nameless) using this new “trash” spec. He is normally one of our best tanks and knows his class so well that he writes a well-followed blog about it. Well in this trifling little 5 man we were running he dropped threat enough once to wipe the entire raid, and he was constantly having mana issues….Are you sure this is the way to go?????
@Rhidach
17 December 2009 at 3:16 pm #
It’s not my fault Cen pulled before I could get all my buffs (ie. Righteous Fury) on. :(
Doing 3000+ DPS in Heroics as a Prot Paladin is great: especially when your random LFG DPS are weaksauce. It’s great to be able to compensate for such things.
@Antigen: I don’t imagine extra points in expertise will help you for a heroic grinding spec. I’d focus on being hit capped with a very high block value. What’s the max SBV based damage from SotR these days? 2700?
As soon as SoComm got the cleave ability I respecced to include it in my tree. It’s absolutely wonderful.
That’s a nice looking Build you’ve put together, Rhidach, but I think the 3 points you put in Crusade would be put to better use maxing out Reckoning, and putting the last point into Benediction (It’s a heroic grinding spec anyways, and you know how bad Mana gets when you’re not tanking 10 things at once).
A good tip for doing epic DPS in Heroics is to equip the slowest 1h-er you can get. Black Icicle (from H-HoR) has the same DPS as Crusader’s Glory etc, but it’s a 2.6 speed. The actual weapon damage is much higher, and therefore, makes your HotR hit super hard. Using Glyphed HotR and your 2 peice T9 bonus (or 2 peice T8 bonus) you can be doing a whole ton of damage with this.
Very interesting spec! I am going to be a copy cat and try it out tonight. More pew pew will definitely make these heroics go faster, and I still need 15 more random groups of 4 for my perky pug.
With the changes to SotR taking one of our major threat generating abilities off spell power and onto melee table, how does this affect the validity of Touched by the Light? Is this still a talent worth investing 3 points into? As far as I can tell, the only remaining abilities on Spell Power are Judgments, Consecration, and Avenger’s Shield.
@Rhidach
17 December 2009 at 6:47 pm #
Right, sorry Fawatam, I think I was confusing. TRM covered what I meant there.
Going onto the melee Attack Table doesn’t mean they removed the spell power damage coefficient. It just means it can be parried.
I been following Thech discussion on the SotR change in the MathLab and SoC. Interesting effect. Went ahead earlier and updated my Spec and picked up SoC in it in the option of a bit of fun.
In the spec you had baring the mana issues you said wouldn’t putting the one extra point in Benefiction be a bit more easy on mana vs the 2 points in Imp Judgements where only one is really needed at minimum?
If your experimenting with the spec as is as well and in expirementing for Heroics why not try out Glyph of Shield of Righteousness for the cheap mana cost and see how that works as well as a option.
@Rhidach
18 December 2009 at 4:28 pm #
Yeah Galo, I should clarify that I was having mana issues because I was playing like a baddie, haha. If I judged wisdom or didn’t let Divine Plea constantly fall off, it would have been a lot smoother. You probably won’t have enough mana issues to necessitate glyphing for lower mana costs, 1 point in spiritual attunement and, like Antigen/Vorian mentioned, bigger pulls should do the trick.
Fantastic! Thanks for the fast responses everyone! Just another reason why I’ve found myself checking this site several times a day.
Glyph of Shield of Righteousness probably isn’t a very good idea. There’s such better glyphs out there, and it costs about 200 mana anyways.
If you’re really having mana problems in Heroics just take off a piece of gear, or tank backwards for a second to take some hits so a big heal can mana you.
I keep a handful of old mana pots on me for emergencies. You certainly don’t need Runic Mana Potions, the crap BC/End-game Vanilla mana pots are plenty for a tank.
@hazmacewillraid
18 December 2009 at 12:48 pm #
Tried the new spec, worked great! I like having to manage seals between trash and bosses, I’m not sure why…
And if I have mana problems, I usually just pull larger groups. MUCH larger. People bitch about tanks pulling too fast, but protadins kinda have to…
i usually just keep on chain-pulling because it’s fun and because i like my mana to keep going :)
- pulling double mobs for 2nd boss in ToC5
- pulling all the snakes before the snake boss in Gun’drak
- pulling all the mobs after king dred in Drak’tharon
- chain-pulling in UK/UP
- pulling the large skeletal adds and the ymirjar mobs in PoS together
- pulling several patrols together in HoS/HoL
and many others… it keeps things interesting too… which takes away from the boredom in the heroics that i usually feel, plus i like to see myself doing 2.5-4k dps on a large pull haha :P
@PinkRaidFrames
21 December 2009 at 2:03 am #
I’ve been using a very similar setup for 3-4 months and love it. I use it for every trash pull that includes multiple targets and almost every heroic.
It works great and I love it. (and yay for not having to worry about ret gear).
I’ve been playing with this build (except I went 1/2 Imp Judgements and 1/5 Benediction because it just … feels better).
SO … MUCH … FUN
I’ve never been #2 on the overall meters, and in most groups I’m #2 on any given pull. Nothing gets away from me, and I find that I can put HotR later in my opening rotation because the cleave from SotR snaps my secondary targets to me right away.
I’ve gone with a double-prot setup, and while I do miss two-shotting mobs when doing dailies, the fun I have doing heroics more than makes up for it.
Cheers
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