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	<title>Comments on: Avoidance nerfed in current ptr</title>
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	<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/</link>
	<description>Tankadin news, views, and guides</description>
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		<title>By: Ohmymoogle</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1135</link>
		<dc:creator>Ohmymoogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1135</guid>
		<description>To the Pally on our server said he would be aiming to keep Parry 1% below dodge% as his ratio.

Hm ..... but i still got an itch to pump out on the dodge &gt;_&lt;: Oh well just wait for more info to maintankadin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the Pally on our server said he would be aiming to keep Parry 1% below dodge% as his ratio.</p>
<p>Hm &#8230;.. but i still got an itch to pump out on the dodge &gt;_&lt;: Oh well just wait for more info to maintankadin.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhidach</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1132</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhidach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1132</guid>
		<description>Great summary TRM! I agree 100% with your assessment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great summary TRM! I agree 100% with your assessment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Renaissance Man</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator>The Renaissance Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1129</guid>
		<description>The point is that this is a new step in their design intention for future raids. This is a dilemma that they faced before. Coming out of the initial tier 6 content moving into patch 2.4, avoidance had hit rediculous numbers, there were tanks who were passively uncrushable, rouges and druids who were unhittable. Healing these overgeared players was trivial, ask any holy paladin what it was like to spam Flash of Light all day long. 

There were two possible solutions. The first option and the one that they took for Sunwell, was to nerf avoidance and add mechanics that made healers unable to heal their tanks for certain periods. This manifested in the sunwell radiance buff, which decreased tanks miss by 5%, and their dodge by 20%. Aside from Brutallus, none of the sunwell bosses were really a threat to instagib a tank. The fights were about control, about making sure that the raid could recover from disruptions. The solution they opted not to use was to simply crank up boss damage to the point where an unavoided hit sent healers into OH SH*T mode.

Enter WotLK. Tanks in T7 gear come walking out with 50% avoidance, easily. Not quite post BT absurdity, but enough that once again, healing these tanks is a fairly trivial experience. Patch 3.1 is rolling out, and Blizzard is once again faced with the same dilemma. This time, they reversed tack, and left avoidance alone, but jacked up boss damage. Tanks die after two hits on even the most trivial bosses in the instance, such as Ignis and XT. Tank survival becomes less about the mechanics of the fight, and more about the random number gods blessing your tank with another few seconds of life. Nowhere is this more apparent than Steelbreaker on the Iron council. A worst case scenario on steelbreaker is frightening. 3k high voltage tick, 20k melee hit, 35k fusion punch, 20k melee hit, 3k high voltage tick, 20k fusion tick. All of that can happen within 3 seconds, 101k damage, and that&#039;s before he gets supercharges if you&#039;re leaving him up last. 

The end result of this is that all that high avoidance has done in ulduar is prompt overhealing. Spamming greater heals and holy lights is the only way to keep the tank alive. If you aren&#039;t already casting a greater heal, before the hit lands, the tank is probably gonna die before a second heal can get to him. A tank might go 15, 20, or 30 seconds doing nothing but dodging, parrying, and being missed, but the healers can&#039;t stop bombing heals on him during that span. 

The nerf to avoidance and the nerf to mana regen, along with the encounter design of patch 3.2 is designed to make healing more forgiving, but at the same time, more skill dependent.

This also has specific implications to tanking balance. On the PTR, druids were still wickedly overpowered for single target tanking, due to their natural EH advantage, combined with solid avoidance. This change, while a slight nerf to the other tanking classes, they at least gain some avoidance back through the buff to parry. This is a straight nerf to Druids, there is no silver lining for them. This seems to be intended to return druids to the old mana sponge style of tanking that they used during the crushing blow ridden era of BC. The idea behind a druid tank back then was that they got a massive EH bonus because while Pallys and Warriors could push crushing blows off the table, Druids had to eat them. This led to druids becoming somwhat overpowered on bosses that did not crush, and this OP status persisted throughout Wrath, where EH was pretty much the only thing that mattered for fights like OS3D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is that this is a new step in their design intention for future raids. This is a dilemma that they faced before. Coming out of the initial tier 6 content moving into patch 2.4, avoidance had hit rediculous numbers, there were tanks who were passively uncrushable, rouges and druids who were unhittable. Healing these overgeared players was trivial, ask any holy paladin what it was like to spam Flash of Light all day long. </p>
<p>There were two possible solutions. The first option and the one that they took for Sunwell, was to nerf avoidance and add mechanics that made healers unable to heal their tanks for certain periods. This manifested in the sunwell radiance buff, which decreased tanks miss by 5%, and their dodge by 20%. Aside from Brutallus, none of the sunwell bosses were really a threat to instagib a tank. The fights were about control, about making sure that the raid could recover from disruptions. The solution they opted not to use was to simply crank up boss damage to the point where an unavoided hit sent healers into OH SH*T mode.</p>
<p>Enter WotLK. Tanks in T7 gear come walking out with 50% avoidance, easily. Not quite post BT absurdity, but enough that once again, healing these tanks is a fairly trivial experience. Patch 3.1 is rolling out, and Blizzard is once again faced with the same dilemma. This time, they reversed tack, and left avoidance alone, but jacked up boss damage. Tanks die after two hits on even the most trivial bosses in the instance, such as Ignis and XT. Tank survival becomes less about the mechanics of the fight, and more about the random number gods blessing your tank with another few seconds of life. Nowhere is this more apparent than Steelbreaker on the Iron council. A worst case scenario on steelbreaker is frightening. 3k high voltage tick, 20k melee hit, 35k fusion punch, 20k melee hit, 3k high voltage tick, 20k fusion tick. All of that can happen within 3 seconds, 101k damage, and that&#8217;s before he gets supercharges if you&#8217;re leaving him up last. </p>
<p>The end result of this is that all that high avoidance has done in ulduar is prompt overhealing. Spamming greater heals and holy lights is the only way to keep the tank alive. If you aren&#8217;t already casting a greater heal, before the hit lands, the tank is probably gonna die before a second heal can get to him. A tank might go 15, 20, or 30 seconds doing nothing but dodging, parrying, and being missed, but the healers can&#8217;t stop bombing heals on him during that span. </p>
<p>The nerf to avoidance and the nerf to mana regen, along with the encounter design of patch 3.2 is designed to make healing more forgiving, but at the same time, more skill dependent.</p>
<p>This also has specific implications to tanking balance. On the PTR, druids were still wickedly overpowered for single target tanking, due to their natural EH advantage, combined with solid avoidance. This change, while a slight nerf to the other tanking classes, they at least gain some avoidance back through the buff to parry. This is a straight nerf to Druids, there is no silver lining for them. This seems to be intended to return druids to the old mana sponge style of tanking that they used during the crushing blow ridden era of BC. The idea behind a druid tank back then was that they got a massive EH bonus because while Pallys and Warriors could push crushing blows off the table, Druids had to eat them. This led to druids becoming somwhat overpowered on bosses that did not crush, and this OP status persisted throughout Wrath, where EH was pretty much the only thing that mattered for fights like OS3D.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1124</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1124</guid>
		<description>the thing is... many items have both... and hit/expertise... so... whats the point of keeping them equal on rating if the Parry DR curve is going like an acapulco cliff diver??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the thing is&#8230; many items have both&#8230; and hit/expertise&#8230; so&#8230; whats the point of keeping them equal on rating if the Parry DR curve is going like an acapulco cliff diver??</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rhidach</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1122</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhidach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1122</guid>
		<description>I think they wanted to rectify the problem where theorycrafters were saying NEVER gem for parry and avoid parry-heavy items if possible, because the ROI is crap compared to dodge. This way they&#039;re somewhat equal if you don&#039;t have much of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they wanted to rectify the problem where theorycrafters were saying NEVER gem for parry and avoid parry-heavy items if possible, because the ROI is crap compared to dodge. This way they&#8217;re somewhat equal if you don&#8217;t have much of them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ohmymoogle</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1121</link>
		<dc:creator>Ohmymoogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1121</guid>
		<description>Ok so even though point for point it&#039;s the same, the diminishing return remains the same as old, so you still lose out when spending on parry instead of dodge which is better bang for bucks....

Ok got it...

So what the hell is the point of the this ?

45.25 dodge rating is 1% dodge 
45.25 parry rating is 1% parry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok so even though point for point it&#8217;s the same, the diminishing return remains the same as old, so you still lose out when spending on parry instead of dodge which is better bang for bucks&#8230;.</p>
<p>Ok got it&#8230;</p>
<p>So what the hell is the point of the this ?</p>
<p>45.25 dodge rating is 1% dodge<br />
45.25 parry rating is 1% parry</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1120</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1120</guid>
		<description>advil? LOL
I think I´m gonna need morphine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>advil? LOL<br />
I think I´m gonna need morphine&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rhidach</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1116</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhidach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1116</guid>
		<description>Believe me, I have to take advil after reading most Theck posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believe me, I have to take advil after reading most Theck posts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1114</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1114</guid>
		<description>god, you just made me feel a lot dumber after clickng on that link... T_T!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god, you just made me feel a lot dumber after clickng on that link&#8230; T_T!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://rhida.ch/2009/07/08/avoidance-nerfed-in-current-ptr/comment-page-1/#comment-1113</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhida.ch/?p=867#comment-1113</guid>
		<description>nvm, just re-read it, and yup then again, we will end up going for STA, Def, and dodge in that order, and any parry will be just a bonus since wue will already be gettting some from def rating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nvm, just re-read it, and yup then again, we will end up going for STA, Def, and dodge in that order, and any parry will be just a bonus since wue will already be gettting some from def rating.</p>
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